Opticraft Community

Quote from: optical on September 25, 2011, 09:28:47 PM

Quote from: Spartan on September 25, 2011, 08:42:28 PM
@Optic

What about a pvp system? Where you could be able to turn your pvp on and off and fight people?

Please dont hijack this topic. Post a new one.

Yes, preferably the thread we already have on pvp.

I'll do my best to address each person's criticisms of the system one at a time.

Quote from: D00MKNlGHT on September 25, 2011, 01:02:36 PM
Having too many ranks complicate things.

You are correct having too many ranks can complicate things but no more so than having too many staff. Or worse staff who want to do their own thing not inline with the host or dev's ideas for the server. How does one decide how many ranks are too many? Guest, Registered, Regular, Trusted member, Donator, Guide, Admin, and Owner doesn't seem like to many to me. Each has a purpose, each is recognized for their own contributions, each has a growing level of responsibility. You can always trim away some ranks by removing say trusted and donator but it is my experience on multiple servers that not all staff should have the ability to do all things.

Quote from: D00MKNlGHT on September 25, 2011, 01:02:36 PM
Plus will we still get interest if we dc halfway? Ppl dc very often.

Nope, on for the whole 30 minutes or no interest, if set to 15 min then must be on for the whole 15 or no interest. If people have connection drops that prevent them from being connected for more than 30 minutes at a time it's suggested they fix the issue with their connection as this is not common in a reliable internet connection. If they have a timer or something they can let staff know and the  time and percent of interest earned can be adjusted. I only posted what worked for my server.

Quote from: D00MKNlGHT on September 25, 2011, 01:02:36 PM
I also suggested having a warp donation program.

Having set amounts for donations tends to discourage people from donating. Having an open system where they choose and get perks for even donating an amount as low as $5 encourages it heavily. I've seen this in action. With my system they get nothing godly but don't get completely ignored for only having $5 to spare either.

Quote from: D00MKNlGHT on September 25, 2011, 01:02:36 PM
And abt the shop it really makes things complicated can't we just use gold ingots to trade instead of the $ thingy.....the shop system can be made like the runescape grand exchange, where we can buy materials only if someone else is selling it, so as to prevent people from flooding the server with a certain item eg diamond, and reduce the value of diamond. I say this as people can donate then use the money to buy alot of diamonds and than start distributing for free, and then hard working miners will realize that their diamonds are worthless now.

What you are talking about is a barter system. This is how an economy starts in a primitive culture. There are a few problems with it though which are as follows.
1. If a player doesn't have anything in which the trader wants no deal can be made and a player who desperately needs the materials goes away empty handed.
2. If you can only trade when people are online, what happens to the players who are on when very few others are? They walk away with nothing.

I understand your concerns, but what you are saying is actually not entirely possible in a free market economy. Primarily because diamonds are only ever present on a server in finite amounts. Secondly is if Player1 does try to low ball the economy a savvy business minded Player2 can go buy up Player1's reserves and resell for a significant profit Player1 is foolish. Basics of economics, buy low sell high.

I have no idea what you are talking about regarding "I say this as people can donate then use the money to buy alot of diamonds and than start distributing for free" Where did they get all this money, or who is selling diamonds so cheaply? Where did all the diamonds come from? Sounds like a high ranking staff member might need to investigate and maybe remove the source.

Quote from: D00MKNlGHT on September 25, 2011, 01:02:36 PM
There should't be too many ranks, as it complicates things, and possibly discrimination may occur...

LOL you've said that about 3 times in the same post, but I am curious where you think this discrimination would come from. As staff on many games and servers before I've always seen the best adopt a Zero tolerance policy on discrimination.

Quote from: D00MKNlGHT on September 25, 2011, 01:02:36 PM
Nice effort for making a long post after joining opticraft forum for 4 days lol xP, how did u come to know about it?

I'm not sure if that was meant in an offensive manner or not, but I will assume not. The post was made at the request of another player who told me optic would greatly value the experience and the feedback it provided.

The server I used to play on regularly (as a player mind you not staff) Tanked when the host through inexperience had inexperienced staff make a lot of new inexperienced staff. This ended up their personal playground and all the other players including donors left. With nobody playing and all the donors gone it was just a matter of time before it all collapsed like a house built of cards. One of the servers I staffed the host got tired of complaints but didn't know how to deal with them and opted to close the server versus listening to people cry. The other one even though I designed the server, the host and I clashed Idea wise so I opted to let him have his way and departed. I quit playing for a while and came back (4 days ago) to find the results I have already mentioned on my previous servers, and thus set out to find a new home.

Things I look for in a server are as follows: Friendly and helpful community with a mature foundation. Staff that doesn't just spawn whatever they want. A server where players have to actually work for what they want kind of like vanilla Minecraft(where all the fun is). And close geographic proximity (it said the server was in the US on Minecraft.net and I get decent ping).

Quote from: morten2ela on September 25, 2011, 01:05:07 PM
An economy system would be good, but interest would only separate rich from poor players. When a player reach a certain amount of money, he could live of the rents, getting tens of thousands of $ each hour (what Optical meant by "explode").

Edit: D00m summed up what I think is the best system.

Math question for you. At what amount of money would a player already have to have to earn $10,000 in interest every 30min at a 5% return? it's probably more than you think, and you have to question how that player received that much money so quickly in the first place. If it's through time spent on the server and work done, do they not deserve it?

What D00m described is a barter system. Barter systems encourage hoarding of goods and the exact type of separation you guys are so much against.

Quote from: Nick3306 on September 25, 2011, 03:48:46 PM
I agree with morten that a gold based economy would be best, but to be honest, i have never really witnessed a money economy like the one suggested.

See the above notes on a barter system.
A currency based economy is a beautiful thing to behold. Everybody can easily get and amass currency, not just the elite who know the best way to get gold or had a head start on the server.

Give it some thought, ask me more questions. Pick at different parts. I'm more than happy to answer and address any concerns. I will always do my best to do so fairly and impartially as possible as well.

A gold standard system is not the same as a full on barter system because gold is not useful for anything else. Even with a currency system a barter system will still exist.

Thanks Devil for posting this, after our conversation, i quickly realised that you had alot to offer to our comunity..

To be brutally honest, i dont understand half the stuff you are talking about (i can build, but i generally suck at computers) but i do agree on what i can grasp

I was going to post a tread myself, but after reading yours, i realize i dont have to..

I do wana state why i wantet to post myself..

Lately ive been griefed alot, not by guests, but by opticraft staff... After a week of this i exploded, same day we had the talk.

The thing i wana stress is WE NEED PROTECTION!!!

I dont have a problem with ppl not taking beta "serius".. thats their problem.. But this seem to lead to a total lack of respect for what others have created..

Ive heard comments like " i break into ppls houses and their mines to get into caves"

WTF and this is from opticraft staff, i am truely horrified by comments like these..

Ive played on servers with protection, and this totallly solves the problem..

As i said, your tread goes way beyond what i have to offer in support to Opti, so thanks again for posting Devil, i allready have a great deal of respect for your attitude ingame, and in the forums.

See you inside

Muhnator

What exactly do you mean by protection? If you are getting griefed by members lets us know and we will deal with those people.

Quote from: Nick3306 on September 26, 2011, 02:38:06 AM
What exactly do you mean by protection? If you are getting griefed by members lets us know and we will deal with those people.

Well, b4 opti made the beta server, i played on a server called supremeserver...

Basicly what protection is, you call an op, and he makes an entire area only "breakble" for the player who lives there, noone else can break blocks of any kind in the protected "cube".. This is from the bedrock, and to the top of the skies..

This way, outsiders cant break doors, walls well anything... they cant mine into the playes mines either, as long as the protected player stays in his area ofc..

Protecting an area took an op around 10 sek..

This solves so many problems, especially with the current issues we got on the server..

About the staffmember... I really dont wana mention names. Atm he is behaving normal, and my rage towards him has turned into pitty.. But if it happends again ill post the name for sure, since this is not the first time i see him involved in stuff that anoys the shit out of ppl..

He seems to walk a fine line of acting mature when there are admins/ops online, but then when he sees that hes alone, the insanely childish attitude comes alive. If anyone argues with him, they basicly get the message, "Im op in classic fu"


Muhnator

I dont see a need for protective zoning in our SMP server, what if you want to make your house bigger than the zone? An Op would have to keep coming back.

And how would it protect your mine that is underground?

And if this member was bothering you that much you should have come to us, we know more about players behaviors than you think.

Quote from: Nick3306 on September 26, 2011, 03:04:57 AM
I dont see a need for protective zoning in our SMP server, what if you want to make your house bigger than the zone? An Op would have to keep coming back.

And how would it protect your mine that is underground?

And if this member was bothering you that much you should have come to us, we know more about players behaviors than you think.

Well as i said, the ground is protected aswell, its from bedrock to the top of the world..

As for protecting zones, i put a great deal of efford into my builds. And atm, when i log on i have a habbit of using the first 10-15 min running around my current area, checking doors, and circuts to see if anything was broken while i was offline.. This is a waste of my time and generally is a moodbreaker when allmost everyday you find a bugged door, cuz of redstone abuse..

As for the staffmember, ill tell you ingame in a pm when i see you tomorrow. I am to nice a guy. But after the last few days of getting anoyed (while i did all in my powers to help him get better at the game) ive actually had enugh..
We need some supervision on this guy for sure.

I am only doing this cuz i see him as a threat to Opticraft. As Devil said. Immature staff can kill the server.. I know for a fact that you have been dealing with 2 other members that are just as bad..

Muhnator

Edit : as for the size of the zones, im sure you allready have an idea for what kinda size space that some ppl would require.. Maby implement some sort of system were we aply for a big area, if we can prove that we would build on it. I would say my builds speak for emselves..

But i did what i could to escape gettin in the way of others, i did travel all the way north untill i hit the border b4 i started building. But that only kept me safe for a short period..

Do you realize how big your mine is? That would mean you would reserve all the space above your mine as well and that is not what we want.

I do however understand your concerns but i just think that protective zoning has to many downfalls on an SMP server.

And remember you can always PM the admins and OP's on the forums instead of waiting for them to come in game.

Quote from: Nick3306 on September 26, 2011, 03:34:41 AM
Do you realize how big your mine is? That would mean you would reserve all the space above your mine as well and that is not what we want.

I do however understand your concerns but i just think that protective zoning has to many downfalls on an SMP server.

And remember you can always PM the admins and OP's on the forums instead of waiting for them to come in game.

I do realize how big my mine is, but the only reason the above area isnt 4x bigger, is that im waiting for the reset, atm im juust waiting, and testing.. And, go to the mine and compare it to what ive built on top, theres not really a big difference. its about the same size ive take up.

You should visit supremeserver, i fail to see the downfall since the experience on the server was far better then the current opti server.. But maby its in the eye of the beholder, your op, im a builder. Not your work gettin griefed..

PM incomming.

Muhnator

Well it also has to do with the fact that i dont believe you should be able to reserve a bunch of space below ground, you didnt make the blocks down there, why should you be the only one that can use them? To me, if i make a house above ground, that doesnt mean i own everything below it or above it.

We could sit here going over pros and cons forever but for now our current system works just fine.

I am still concerned about the proposed economy.

I do not like compound interest of 5% every 30 mins. Its just too damn high. All someone needs to do is hang out with an anti-afk bot and they'll be rich because of the compound nature.

I'd much rather see money earned off time online (+X per X minutes online), killing mobs, etc. The interest just doesn't sound like a good idea at all.

As far as immature staff and protections go - If someone is misbehaving, report them. Classic operator is meaningless on beta, and im not going to lie, many of the current classic operators are very immature and childish, and i will not tolerate their behavior on beta.

I understand what you are both saying I'll address each in turn. remember this is only through experience I'm not telling you what you should or shouldn't do on your server, it's your choice i can only tell you what i would like to see on a server i play on, as well as what I had on my own servers.

Protection from residence. The area you protect is limited in size, the only person who should ever have rights to protect the whole map is the host. Period. Instead the host sets the YML so you could say protect an area 256x256 from bedrock to sky, you get a large rectangle that's yours. Think of it as buying real estate, this may have part of a cave network in it, it may not. Regardless it's finite, the host can also set it so you can have more than one of these areas. It's completely customizable.

Nick it eliminates the need for staff to be involved period, if the player has the funds with iConomy they buy the protection themself with commands. but only if they have the funds to actually make the purchase. Once purchased if they want to purchase more they can via more funds, or by ranking up to allow larger sizes of property bought. Once they buy it, unless they make it public of add friends they are the only ones (aside from admins) who can ever modify any block inside the real estate. No fire, no lava, no flooding, nothing. Though they are free to destroy their own stuff. Even if somebody that doesn't belong gets in, the server TPs them out.

Nick maybe you could elaborate on what downfalls you see? On each of the servers I've been on I've never seen any downfalls with any of the protection systems. So maybe I'm just unaware.

The current system works fine for now, on SMP since resources are more valuable and more time consuming to get, you'll find out there's a lot more abuse, a lot more griefing, a lot more exploiting, and a lot more work among the community. The question you guys have to ask yourselves is how you want to handle it. It's up to you guys.

These are just suggestions and a way for you to take a peek at how some other guys did it. Oh and if anybody is wondering why I don't just set up my own server, it's because I refuse to pay monthly hosting fees when I have a great internet connection, and a functional Domain, I just need to replace some hardware, but why when I also prefer to play than to staff?

It's a great concern Optical, and those are settings that can be customized. Either in iConomy itself of with an iConomy add-on. You are free to change the interest earned, but in my experience 5% worked best for our servers. we're talking about $0.05 on the $1.00 every half hour, but you are free to change it to 1% or 0.5% or any other amount you want. Like I said feel free to ask me questions, I'm not even afraid to fire up my test server again and let you tinker on it. You'll lag like a bugger though because my 4gigs of memory are nearly always tapped out on this PC.

As far as staff goes the best solution I ever saw was a guy that said, "Sorry guys this is a new server and I am host, you're all starting at square one, those whom prove themselves will get promoted, those that don't are free to stay and play. Nothing personal and no hard feelings as I have faith that you all have the potential to be great staff, good luck and LETS GET IT ON!" it wasn't me and i wasn't staff there, but his staff was super helpful.

Lemme get this straight. Dont u know that ops can spawn items.based on ur shop system, whenever someone's buy a thing eg diamond, an item will be spawned hence increasing the supply, when the supply increase the value of diamond will fall(this Is economics).
Secondly zoning out an area will turn the server into like a classic server, where we display our builds. DUDE this is a SURVIAVAL game not a "make the best building game" we are supposed to survive. I feel that the protection available is sufficient for us to survive, and if u say about people intruding ur mines, if u have cleared of all the visible ores no one would even bother exploring your mine.
Lastly if u say that having a standard price for things eg warps are not good, then y is opticalza still receiving donations from his classic things?havIng a warp is a convinence ESP for those people who are willing to fork out the money.we want this server to be a HUGE server, and if we give a clear distinction between those who donated and those who have not, people will feel insulted and discriminated( eg donators can light fire) so as I said warps dose not change the playing field it is just a convience for ppl who are willing to donate to the server.

Doom, please try to use proper punctuation. And i have no idea what you mean by the fact that OPs can spawn items. we can but we never trade or sell them or even give them away.

Zoning itself is not that bad of an idea, i can just see every guest wanting a zone and the map being filled with reserved spots.