Opticraft Community

Orr, dunno if anyone will disagree but have a limit of how much diamonds you sell? c;

Diamonds suck as a reward.  Maybe a bit of cash or something not the best item in the game.

If this were passed, in a couple months all of you would come crying when you die with diamond stuff, and now you cant get 5 diamonds a day.

Quote from: RuthlessTomato on September 24, 2013, 08:52:47 PM
If this were passed, in a couple months all of you would come crying when you die with diamond stuff, and now you cant get 5 diamonds a day.

Loosing diamonds should be something to cry about. They need to have a rarity to them.

Quote from: RuthlessTomato on September 24, 2013, 08:52:47 PM
If this were passed, in a couple months all of you would come crying when you die with diamond stuff, and now you cant get 5 diamonds a day.

why would you cry over diamonds? anyway go mine lazy people..

"Smp" huh

Quote from: Afro_ on September 26, 2013, 01:01:06 AM
"Smp" huh

Quote from: Holy_Moses on September 26, 2013, 01:08:24 AM

Everybody still supporting diamonds. GETTING THEM FREE is not really smp, or well it's less smp than $... I think...

By SMP he means Survival Multi Player, for those who have trouble understanding.

Not that hard of a concept to grasp. He is essentially agreeing with how we've become less of a survival server.

I'd say we are more of a "here's some free stuff to keep you here and make you vote/donate for us" server. While diamonds are great, money wouldn't be such a bad substitute either. Besides, think about it. Diamonds could be added to the market to sell and that way, mining would be a bit more encouraged.

Wow, I cannot believe how many people would want to change it! I think money would be a great substitute for increasing how rare diamonds are and that you could possibly sell them to the market for some cash.

Quote from: Afro_ on September 26, 2013, 01:01:06 AM
"Smp" huh

So by saying you want SMP, you want to get rid of /homes , money, and all those other things?

It's funny how everyone's argument to change the reward from diamonds to cash seems to be "this was supposed to be SMP" "getting stuff for free isn't SMP so give me money not diamonds"

If your complaint is how much this server isn't SMP anymore, you really shouldn't be asking for money as a substitute. Money let's you go to the market and buy almost anything you want with out working for it. Money is far from SMP when there is a market.

I will go out on a limb and predict that if cash is a reward for voting (keep in mind many don't actually vote when they click for the diamonds) The ease of getting cash will all but halt trading between players in game. When money looses it's value why go through the trouble of finding someone that's online and willing to sell for cheaper then the market. If they are voting also they really don't need your money ether.

It's often this need for money and the trading that create friendships among the Players.

Money already can be obtained by donating. I think it's fair to say the donations help support the costs of keeping this server running. Opti has a well oiled machine, that's balanced rather well and the server's success is proof of this. I strongly believe cash as a reward for less then a minutes worth of work is no better then being AFK for hours just to farm.

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Quote from: B1ueJ0ker on September 27, 2013, 01:54:52 AM
It's funny how everyone's argument to change the reward from diamonds to cash seems to be "this was supposed to be SMP" "getting stuff for free isn't SMP so give me money not diamonds"

If your complaint is how much this server isn't SMP anymore, you really shouldn't be asking for money as a substitute. Money let's you go to the market and buy almost anything you want with out working for it. Money is far from SMP when there is a market.

I will go out on a limb and predict that if cash is a reward for voting (keep in mind many don't actually vote when they click for the diamonds) The ease of getting cash will all but halt trading between players in game. When money looses it's value why go through the trouble of finding someone that's online and willing to sell for cheaper then the market. If they are voting also they really don't need your money ether.

It's often this need for money and the trading that create friendships among the Players.

Money already can be obtained by donating. I think it's fair to say the donations help support the costs of keeping this server running. Opti has a well oiled machine, that's balanced rather well and the server's success is proof of this. I strongly believe cash as a reward for less then a minutes worth of work is no better then being AFK for hours just to farm.

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The only reason I argue that money should be the replacement for diamonds is because I know we will NEVER abandon any of the major attractions to the server (/homes, PS, Market, etc. etc.). So I just stopped trying to ask for a "true SMP" server and started asking for a more realistic way to bring back some small bit of SMP (diamonds being a rare and significant part of SMP again instead of a worthless item).

The money voting reward idea is not even an officially considered idea by the higher tier of staff as far as I know. So, we can't really say people will be able to get "a lot of money" out of it. For all we know, its $25 a vote, 5 votes a day. So $125 a day. That's not an unreasonably large amount nor is it small. It's the perfect amount for new players to slowly make some money and get those PS's in no time. Personally, I've never seen what Opticraft would have been like with a different system that wasn't diamond rewards. Diamonds are meant to be of some value but they've become so abundant (due to artificial creation per vote) that they're worthless.

I don't like diamonds being such an easily obtainable item and if not money as its replacement, what else is there? What is valuable enough and yet not too important to the aspect of survival? I've honestly got nothing. It's either money or diamonds. And money isn't a part of survival originally, diamonds are. Diamonds protect you from the blast of that sneaky creeper, that fiercesome ender dragon blast. Diamond swords kill mobs in just a two or three hits. Diamond picks mine at the most efficient speeds for the durability. As it stands, diamonds have the longest and strongest durability, no matter what form you decide to craft them in. They are meant to be a heavily valuable item but they're not.

As for people not voting the correct way, it's simply because of our terrible voting system right now. Despite the fact that we use votifier on some voting sites, its super easy to bypass the whole captcha/votifier process by simply typing in your name and clicking on the vote button. If only all our voting links supported something like votifier, we could perhaps reprogram our votes to count only when you have truly voted on the site. And while some people have "seen the error in their voting ways" due to multiple forum threads urging them to fill out captchas, not everyone has. New members who go vote on our site think they're actually voting for us when they click those 4 buttons (when in reality they're just getting free rewards). We may not get as many votes as is but those who do vote need to be voting the correct way, instead of exploiting the voting system for free stuff.

There will be arguments on both sides for diamonds and for money and we will continuously run in circles with no obvious solutions or agreements. We will always be referencing past decisions to remove "farms". It's up to Nick to decide if he wants to change up the system. We can argue all we want but the decision ultimately lies with him.

Or perhaps....maybe it's just too late for any dramatic changes to server standards. Maybe we've benefitted from the diamond system for so long that there is no point in changing it now. We are already declining in player count as the interest in Minecraft wanes and the interests in newer games increases. So perhaps a change of this proportion could simply hinder players. If we had done this a year earlier, I feel it would have made more sense then.

I don't know what to say, even though I've said a lot. I back the money over diamonds position, but maybe it's too late for such a significant change. Either way, we have to fix the voting system itself in order to end the exploitation. It's not benefitting us at all, just making players happy to get free items. If you want to give free items, you can implement some kind of "daily gift" plugin...but not this...not through a faulty voting system.

Like I said, its up to Nick to decide what to do about all this :/.

And another wall of holy post XD

i didnt see much discussion yet dj, majority is ether agreeing or throwing random idee's in

wondering why the following argument was not mentioned yet

mining, the fun active exploring/adventure underground, with dangerous enemys and various loot
was suppose to be our main moneymaker, yet this is stil being beaten by other boring methodes
the dia's new value, would finely get everyone back on underground missions again, enjoying the game

no more afk farm bs
no more crashed, useless items
more mining fun
more voters

if theres 1 thing to improve the server, with the least effort id say we found it
if anyone disagrees il hit them with a frying pan for the greater good