Opticraft Community

Then why are they discussing it after they've come to the conclusion that there are no simple ways. Seems like there are two answers, don't do it at all or put the time and effort in for something difficult.

I don't see the problem here. Spamming sign shops outside spawn and such is pretty much a waste of a sign and a chest. Anyone leaving spawn will be new, so not looking to buy much and having very little money, just exploring (And so not looking to buy anything, or they will use a /home, not even seeing these shops. The only effective place to put them would be at a /home that everyone knows about. The advantage of this is being able to sell while offline. Leaving adverts on signs outside spawn is no different to currently leaving adverts for shops; there is more of a risk of protected chests spammed outside spawn than advertisement signs (IMO).

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It is not as simple as installing an already made plugin. Since the plugin was not made by one of our devs you have to worry about a list of things which cschurz has already pointed out but everyone keeps ignoring. You have back doors, duping glitches, waiting for the plugin to be updated so we can update our server, and a whole list of other things that have to be taken into account. You cant just give it a trial run because if something were to go wrong, it could screw up the entire server economy in various ways. You seem to not understand how much decision making goes into using even the smallest of 3rd party plugins we use.

We have said this is something we would like to do but just have not figured out a good way to do it. Trust me, once we figure it out, we will have it for you guys to enjoy.

Quote from: xDeeKay on January 10, 2013, 11:48:14 AM

Quote from: TheWholeLoaf on January 10, 2013, 11:41:12 AM
most of us dont know what goes into coding and creating things like this so.... :/

You don't need to..

Quote from: Nick3306 on January 09, 2013, 11:42:24 PM
We had a huge discussion about this a few months back (opti, relkeb, dejected, and I) and at the time we determined there was not an easy enough way to implement something like this at the time. These days we have even less time on their hands than we did back then

Yes we do
I have no clue how you guys put stuff like this together and integrate it into the server, I was only trying to give a little push to possible spark an idea in cschurz or nicks head.....

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Quote from: zajhein on January 11, 2013, 06:50:54 AM
you make a backup and then install the plugin, if it fails or you find too many bugs you simply restore the backup.
Or, you run a test server on a side computer for a little while to make sure it works and to fix any bugs you find.

Two things wrong with this, they both fall under the same thing.
It's not as simple as 'finding the bug'. You could test a plugin for hours and not reveal a bug. Bugs in plugins don't always happen by simply testing the plugin, there are usually more advanced ways that bugs can occur.

If someone is skilled enough though, looking into the code will tell more than running the plugin on a server.
I'm sure this is what Optical and Dejected do, so there's no need to test anything when they can see the problem straight away. Not to mention how badly written plugins are these days.

Quote from: zajhein on January 11, 2013, 03:04:44 AM
If you are that concerned with people abusing sign shops then just make it a Rule, and tell people what they can and can't do. The same as griefing, this server spends an inordinate amount of time on handling griefing, why would a few signs shops be a bigger problem?

1) allowing chest shops essentially causes grief. all those signs and abandoned shops will have to be dealt with.
2) people never follow rules.
3) we have indeed spent a lot of time on anti-grief methods - optical and I are college students. he works full time. a lot of these systems were put in place when time and motivation weren't an issue. adding to that list of things to do is not reasonable.

Quote from: zajhein on January 11, 2013, 03:04:44 AM
This server doesn't have it's own custom plugin to stop every griefer, that's taken care of by the mods. Why would you need a custom sign shop plugin when it wouldn't be anywhere close to a problem that griefing causes here?

apart from

• 30,000+ known compromised accounts pre-banned
  
• real time proxy detection
  
• automatic grief traps (a LARGE percentage of our total bans) - p.s you can get out of any grief trap without triggering it. requires a certain number of blocks before it bans.
  
• protection stones themselves
  
• a complete helpop support system that is far more powerful than any other servers
  
  mods are simply the last line of defense to rollback grief. they are not constantly rolling back grief as you seem to think. our anti-grief systems are very effective considering we are not limiting legitimate players in any way.
  
  

  Quote from: zajhein on January 11, 2013, 06:50:54 AM
  Actually I have run my own game servers before and have used various premade plugins myself
  

  
  because you can't code one yourself, correct?
  
  --
  
  you can argue the specific details about every little thing and tell us how much experience you have on your own game servers all you want. we're not going to install a pre-made plugin unless it is open source and well written. nick and deekay did a good job of explaining why.
  
  we ARE interested in providing a system that facilitates player to player trading. some sort of automatic shop, sign-made or not, would be great. from what we have seen on other servers, chest shops only pollute the world. feel free to make a new topic suggesting additional things.
  
  --
  
  also,
  
  previously banned for xray http://mcbouncer.com/user/zajhein/bansFor
  twitter account that is nothing but spam https://twitter.com/zajhein
  
  - who are you?

Not sure if suggestions are even useful at this point, but I'll try again.

What if there was a designated area for people to make their shops, like a per-made building. Yes, it would have to be pretty massive but shouldn't be to difficult to build. Or just an open area...
Either way, they would have to be well organized.

Not sure if this had been sugested but just throwing it out there.

This may just be my own ignorance here, but isn't the code already in place for the server market?  Is the market specially coded as is, or is it based on the signs?  I understand there would be minor revisions that would extend just removing money from a player's account, to also take that money and add it to a designated player's account, ie, the placer of the sign.  I also would assume that this code is just being represented as a special block, much like the PSs, and could be sold at the market, much like the PSs.

I mean no disrespect in my argument, but the main argument against this so far just doesn't make sense to me.  Signs and chests(and doors, furnaces, etc...) can already be used to freely grief land, but that hasn't prevented the use of LWC.  Having the item at a cost at the market would make it as pointless to abuse as buying PSs and spamming them all over the server.  I understand that both of these parallels are not exact, as neither of them actually offer any incentive to the spammer, while a functioning shop would, but I don't believe it would become an issue.  And whether it ended up being deemed acceptable or not, I personally would find it interesting to stumble upon a random chest in the middle of a desert offering some goods that I may be in need of at the time.

I don't think any extra coding to enforce any sort of restrictions would be necessary.  What little bit of extra spam that may be generated can be handled by mods on an as needed basis.  Any rules deemed necessary can be just be stated
in the location the items are sold, but again, it just seems more of a 'use common sense' rule, just as PSs and LWC items don't really come with any rules, however, are managed by the mods/ops when a conflict arises.  I understand the whole argument of the ops having enough to do, but does that mean the server should never be improved if it means there's a chance an op might be called on occasion.  It's a necessary evil.

Also, though I'm a coder in real life, I don't know much about how Minecraft mods are made, but would it be easier to take the trapped chest from the next update and mod a new block out of that one.  Personally, I like the idea to make a payed sign that generates a redstone pulse, as it would open up so many more possibilities for player builds, but anything is better than nothing, so if it would be easier to just modify the existing mod used in the market, that would be understandable.

Sorry to barge in, but:

Quote from: sassamo on January 20, 2013, 03:57:06 AM
This may just be my own ignorance here, but isn't the code already in place for the server market?

The market uses a different plugin called Essentials.

Quote from: Matty585 on January 20, 2013, 04:11:47 AM
Sorry to barge in, but:

Quote from: sassamo on January 20, 2013, 03:57:06 AM
This may just be my own ignorance here, but isn't the code already in place for the server market?

The market uses a different plugin called Essentials.

no, optical made his own implementation of sign-shops. we no longer use essentials to handle teleportation signs or market signs.

Quote from: cschurz on January 20, 2013, 04:36:08 AM

Quote from: Matty585 on January 20, 2013, 04:11:47 AM
Sorry to barge in, but:

Quote from: sassamo on January 20, 2013, 03:57:06 AM
This may just be my own ignorance here, but isn't the code already in place for the server market?

The market uses a different plugin called Essentials.

no, optical made his own implementation of sign-shops. we no longer use essentials to handle teleportation signs or market signs.

Ok thanks for letting me know, I was a little bit outdated because I haven't played Opticraft for a while  

Make it either only peaceable in your protection stone areas or moderators only.

i believe that chest and sign shops would be a great idea