Opticraft Community

Quote from: crazyduude on November 16, 2012, 09:16:55 PM
The market prices are high so players can sell items at a cheaper price so other players want to buy players stuff cause it's cheaper than the market.

Personally I don't mind the market prices all that much, but an easier way of doing player-to-player transactions would be quite useful.

Yes, I agree, this is a survival server, but one of the ways of 'surviving' is through the player ran economy.  It's nice having the server market for a just-in-case, and I think the high prices there are fine, though balancing them a little wouldn't hurt.  BUt the big item in question is the player ran enonomy.  It is very tedious advertising(spamming), negotiating, meeting, trading, and half the time you do 90% of the work, and the buyer decides they don't want it anymore.  I'm not familiar with the mentioned mod, maybe it would be useful, but I think at the least, a very easy and useful mod(which is probably already in place for the server market) would allow us to create signs on our own chests listing content and price.  As I've suggested before, this would be awesome to extend to the point just generating a redstone signal, so player built rides/mini games can still be enjoyed without the need to have someone there running them, and I have seen mods for this, but they may not be well known/reliable.  Either way, player shops(sign+chest) should be very easy to implement, and I believe would be a major boon to the server.

No, to survive, you eat. And kill what tries to kill you. Not run a shop and trade blocks.

Quote from: Nick3306 on November 16, 2012, 08:22:14 PM

Quote from: abajona on November 16, 2012, 08:08:30 PM

Quote from: Nick3306 on November 16, 2012, 08:01:32 PM
You seem to not understand what I was trying to say. We are a survival server, were are not an economy run server (well not directly) so the fact that there is a market at all for you to buy stuff from was a bit of a stretch for us.

oh and btw, it can't be a survival server when there are more admins online then monsters alive (if you know what I mean)

If you want to be taken seriously, drop the smart ass attitude. It wont get you anywhere on here.

i don't think it was meant to be that sort of attitude. i certainly didn't take it that way.

@abajona:

the plugin you linked is essentially an auction house, and looks pretty OK. we won't use that plugin here because it doesn't appear open source. feel free to correct me if i am wrong, but we choose not to use closed source plugins because we can't support it ourselves / can't verify security / can't rely on the dev to update, etc.

the plugin itself looks a little over-simplified. i can imagine hundreds of pages of random crap thrown up on it making it mostly useless. with some modification, it could be nice. i would personally like to do some magic with in-game books / maps to display a proper auction house interface...

@sassamo and ozzy:

i appreciate seeing coherent posts and intelligent feedback. sassamo really does hit the nail on the head. player trading has been discussed extensively and it's something i would personally love to see on the server, but we really don't want to rely on an outside plugin at this time and i don't have the time to work on coding up an elegant solution to the problem.

i promise the staff here at opticraft is very competent (*cough* especially the developers) - just a bit low on time. the players reading this and contributing to the suggestion forum really can make a difference by sparking mature and  competent discussions. remember that  it's always easy to give the general idea for a system, but much harder as a developer to make all of the small details come together into a real product.

i don't remember seeing a "suggestion" topic where the focus is to discuss player trading, and i'd like to see the topic thoroughly discussed. i will continue reading this thread, of course.

--

as for being a "survival" server, i think a player-run economy is very important. we can always cover up the servers problems by saying 'we can't do that, it isn't "survival" enough' but that's not good enough for me. player satisfaction should be #1 - that's one of the reasons that we are implementing a unique PvP system that hopefully doesn't suck (like most other minecraft pvp systems). if the players want a player-run economy, then that is not out of the question. as long as we don't end up handing the players blocks or whatever - that's what a creative server is for.

Quote from: NathanialJones on November 16, 2012, 09:09:05 PM
I know a server like that, it was okay, but
With something thousand people on the server it's like infinite items for sale.
Also where pretty far from survival anyway, with teleporting, buying items, and stuff like that, you should be grateful, and this, is server, from all the servers I've been on is the best mix of survival and mods.

It cannot be infinite items if you limit the sales for each player.
For example: Each player is able to have a maximum of 5 sales at the same time.
That way, it won't make it a mess.
Survival? I don't feel like it's hard to survive in this server, or any other server I've played in (even hard diff).
Although you may be right.Too many options may ruin the server. However, player are already trading. So why not make it easier and more reliable with a commend function.

Quote from: crazyduude on November 16, 2012, 09:16:55 PM
The market prices are high so players can sell items at a cheaper price so other players want to buy players stuff cause it's cheaper than the market.

The market isn't the main point  here. =\

Quote from: tiggy26668 on November 16, 2012, 09:40:26 PM
well he does raise one good point.

smp server or not, we do have an economy and currently selling/buying items between players can be a little sketchy and lacks any way to monitor transactions. if you get robbed you're kinda shit outa luck. And the prices (being too high or too low aside) aren't really well thought out it's more like items just got a number slapped on them. kinda like they mentioned with the logs.
we are smp, the prices should be high yes but for example, you charge $200 for an iron ingot and $900 ($100/ingot) for an iron block. as a math major it makes me wanna shank someone.....

the rest is hogwash, don't really need more/less items (aside from maybe a nether star?) or lower prices or some crazy system for buying and selling on a virtual market.

what would be awesome is if the prices were proportional to what the item is.

and if we had a nice little command for selling to each other, something like /sell <item> <amount> <player>, checks to see if u have the items, pops up a little check mark and X for the person u wanna sell to, checks if they have the money, and makes the swap. or something along those lines.... would b cool  

Yeah, that sounds pretty good too.
The main point here is to make trading/buying/selling between players easier and more reliable, periot.

Quote from: OzzyKP on November 16, 2012, 10:34:58 PM

Quote from: crazyduude on November 16, 2012, 09:16:55 PM
The market prices are high so players can sell items at a cheaper price so other players want to buy players stuff cause it's cheaper than the market.

Personally I don't mind the market prices all that much, but an easier way of doing player-to-player transactions would be quite useful.

Exactly.

Quote from: sassamo on November 17, 2012, 01:03:09 AM
Yes, I agree, this is a survival server, but one of the ways of 'surviving' is through the player ran economy.  It's nice having the server market for a just-in-case, and I think the high prices there are fine, though balancing them a little wouldn't hurt.  BUt the big item in question is the player ran enonomy.  It is very tedious advertising(spamming), negotiating, meeting, trading, and half the time you do 90% of the work, and the buyer decides they don't want it anymore.  I'm not familiar with the mentioned mod, maybe it would be useful, but I think at the least, a very easy and useful mod(which is probably already in place for the server market) would allow us to create signs on our own chests listing content and price.  As I've suggested before, this would be awesome to extend to the point just generating a redstone signal, so player built rides/mini games can still be enjoyed without the need to have someone there running them, and I have seen mods for this, but they may not be well known/reliable.  Either way, player shops(sign+chest) should be very easy to implement, and I believe would be a major boon to the server.

Making our own shops, with signs on chests sounds fine too.
As long as the solution will include us (players) having more reliable and simpler transactions between each other, it would be awesome.

Quote from: SnapeTheSnipe on November 17, 2012, 06:08:33 AM
No, to survive, you eat. And kill what tries to kill you. Not run a shop and trade blocks.

You're right. To survive the first night as a new player in the server - that's exactly what you need to do.
After the second night or so, it's kinda hard to NOT survive.. Maybe in a hard diff it would be a bit of a problem to survive the first few nights.

Quote from: cschurz on November 17, 2012, 08:23:14 AM

Quote from: Nick3306 on November 16, 2012, 08:22:14 PM

Quote from: abajona on November 16, 2012, 08:08:30 PM

Quote from: Nick3306 on November 16, 2012, 08:01:32 PM
You seem to not understand what I was trying to say. We are a survival server, were are not an economy run server (well not directly) so the fact that there is a market at all for you to buy stuff from was a bit of a stretch for us.

oh and btw, it can't be a survival server when there are more admins online then monsters alive (if you know what I mean)

If you want to be taken seriously, drop the smart ass attitude. It wont get you anywhere on here.

i don't think it was meant to be that sort of attitude. i certainly didn't take it that way.

@abajona:

the plugin you linked is essentially an auction house, and looks pretty OK. we won't use that plugin here because it doesn't appear open source. feel free to correct me if i am wrong, but we choose not to use closed source plugins because we can't support it ourselves / can't verify security / can't rely on the dev to update, etc.

the plugin itself looks a little over-simplified. i can imagine hundreds of pages of random crap thrown up on it making it mostly useless. with some modification, it could be nice. i would personally like to do some magic with in-game books / maps to display a proper auction house interface...

@sassamo and ozzy:

i appreciate seeing coherent posts and intelligent feedback. sassamo really does hit the nail on the head. player trading has been discussed extensively and it's something i would personally love to see on the server, but we really don't want to rely on an outside plugin at this time and i don't have the time to work on coding up an elegant solution to the problem.

i promise the staff here at opticraft is very competent (*cough* especially the developers) - just a bit low on time. the players reading this and contributing to the suggestion forum really can make a difference by sparking mature and  competent discussions. remember that  it's always easy to give the general idea for a system, but much harder as a developer to make all of the small details come together into a real product.

i don't remember seeing a "suggestion" topic where the focus is to discuss player trading, and i'd like to see the topic thoroughly discussed. i will continue reading this thread, of course.

--

as for being a "survival" server, i think a player-run economy is very important. we can always cover up the servers problems by saying 'we can't do that, it isn't "survival" enough' but that's not good enough for me. player satisfaction should be #1 - that's one of the reasons that we are implementing a unique PvP system that hopefully doesn't suck (like most other minecraft pvp systems). if the players want a player-run economy, then that is not out of the question. as long as we don't end up handing the players blocks or whatever - that's what a creative server is for.

Using or not using the plugin I gave for example, doesn't bother me much.
I understand why you do not want to use closed source plugin, you've a good reason not to.
Although, just providing a reliable plugin(with just a few commands) that will improve the transactions between players - would be really great.
As I've already said before, I do not want to have to trust some random player to give fulfill his part of the deal.
*Adding a question about the market:
Correct me if I am wrong, but the only item(that is sale-able to the market) that is breed/grow-able by player is sugar (not talking about generators e.x cobblestone generator).
So, why aren't there more items like that are saleable to the market? I found that making money from the server money (not by trading between players) is pretty hard.

Waiting for you comments, and thank you guys for participating in the thread.

Before we had pumpkins, melons, and cactus, the problem was that people where making auto farms and making TONS of lag and TONS of money with little work.
The reason sugarcane is in the market is because it's only like 5$ for 32.
The best ways to make money is:
Mine for redstone, iron, gold, or lapis lazuli. Coal isn't worth selling.
Selling houses (I sold one for 35k)
Selling mob spawners