Opticraft Community

Username: tabooti
Banned By: DeweyMeister
Reason: Griefing Acornbulb's Island   
Set date: 52 blocks   2012-09-22 02:35:22   
Expire date: 2012-09-24 02:35:22

Let's clarify exactly what 'Acornbulb's Island" really is.
http://smp.opticraft.net/map/#/-4887/64/-1955/max/0/0

This is what it is, And supposedly this belong to Acornbulb.

On June 19th (Earliest builds by him on that island-As said by Chipaton) Acornbulb has started construction on the Island. However, The Island was part of Stuttgart's territorial claims 3 days before Acornbulb started his Unlawful construction.

[spoiler=Proof of Island building]
As you can see in the Image below, At that stage Acornbulb has only built a bridge to the Island, and no construction has actually started on the Island.
Construction has not started on the Island, till the 22nd.
Acornbulb joined the City on the 19th.
The map was already up on the thread, IF he didn't bother reading the rules, OR to see to what extend the map extended to, How is it our problem? He agreed to terms that He said that he read!

Plus, We don't even claim the entire Island, But only half of it!
We're not even claiming the portion that Acornbulb UNLAWFULLY built his creations on!
[/spoiler]

[spoiler=Proof of breach of law.]
Ownership[2]:
2.1 Anything that is including on our "Map" is part of Stuttgart. You do not have any rights to anything built on this land (With the exception of an "accepted project application" Permit.
2.2 The government has the right to unrestricted access to all property & protection in Stuttgart (Except for personal chests. Please see section 6 for exceptions to this rule)
2.3 You cannot own a space in the public mines, the public mines are strictly public.
2.4 You are not permitted to build anywhere without permission, if you want to build anything in the city (Including a certain project) you need explicit approvals on your project applications on the thread..
2.4.1 Anything you place in the city, or contribute IE: Donations, buildings, ect ect all belong to the government of the City of Stuttgart
2.4.2 The only exception to rule 2.4.1 would be items in your personal chest (Locked private chests)[/spoiler]

On June the 19th Acornbulb, applied to join the city of Stuttgart.
[spoiler=Acornbulb's application to join the city.][/spoiler]
Not to mention that he joined to practically give us his land, Will be returned to him.
We have no interest in his land, And do not want it, and is the reason that his region was not included in our territorial claims.

As you can see in our modern territorial claims, our claims include half of the Island, as per our ORIGINAL claims, PRIOR to acornbulb, even BUILDING on the island.

Now for the VERY related ban appeal:

1st Point: Not Acornbulb's Island. And the areas modified, never belonged to his Island in the first place.

We were building our fence across the Island, when Acornbulb started freaking out. And called the mods over. He called them over, and after a long discussion with them, I agreed to take the fences down temporarily (And started building around the island, as instructed), Till the island dispute is resolved. Aside from that, I removed the bridge that he made that connected to our mainland. Went to gather wood for more fence a few moments later I was banned.

Checked the ban, And I was supposedly banned for griefing ()
Adding and removing blocks (Including a dirt bridge, that's not part of the Island, IS NOT griefing.)


If possible, I'd like an Admin, or Operator veto the decision made by these moderators on the Island's ownership.
Proof is provided above.
          

First of all you CAN NOT claim land by merely drawing a paint border around a pic, so basically what your saying is I can draw a border around a picture of the ENITRE live map and claim it as mine? I dont think so.

Second of all, i quite frankly DO NOT care about your city's rules as these rules are not abdided by the entire server, so thus makes these laws petty and rather pointless, and it is also his land so you actually have no claim to his land because  you have NO actual signature of this person agreeing to your laws, and NO a post does not count as signature.

Third of all you placed blocks on HIS island which counts as grief and the you destroyed HIS land bridge with is further grief

(Sorry for double post)

So am I correct in saying that i now own everything within that box?

Simply no, you cannot own all this land because you put it in a box.
The land we claimed, was virgin land (Meaning that no one has touched it yet).
We verified our claim on it, by building these fences, and by having any residencies to agree to our border claims.(ACORN AGREED TO THESE CLAIMS Due to the proofs that I've provided)  

Quote from: Scotty602AB on September 22, 2012, 09:00:15 AM
you have NO actual signature of this person agreeing to your laws, and NO a post does not count as signature.

RIGHT THERE
He AGREED to the rules, He AGREED to those LAWS. Those are AGREEMENTS. Those AGREEMENTS, and CONSENT. And I've put up the laws to prove it.
This was land, that is rightfully ours, He built on it without permission from us.

IF you joined a city, and didn't read it the rules, that's your fault, not mine.
The same thing with the server, If someone broke the rules, and didn't read them, It's THEIR fault, Not yours.
[spoiler=SIGNATURE]

Quote from: AcornBulb on June 19, 2012, 07:02:16 PM
How old are you? 14

How much time do you spend on smp.opticraft.net each week? 15-25

What timezone do you live in? +5 GMT

Have you ever been banned from opticraft.net? Yea twice. Got unbanned 1 - 2 hours later

Have you read and Agreed to abide by all Stuttgart's laws and any future changes to it? Yea

Do you live *Or have lived* in any other cities, If so please list them.  Nope

If you're no longer in another city, please tell us why.

Why do you want to become a citizen of Stuttgart? Because I live close by and im ready going to annex my land

[/spoiler]


Rebutting point 3:

The bridge has exactly 22 blocks. A Dirt bridge, that leads to OUR undisputed land.
The BRIDGE is NOT part of the Island what so ever.

Another point that I have to make, Is your opinion is Irrelevant towards what qualifies as a legitimate claim, and what qualifies as city laws, You can leave that completely up to the Admins.

In addition, You are a biased person. Both you, and I have had grievances, and you do not like me, a wee bit. I suspect that you are supporting false claims out of vengeance.
In addition to providing all the evidences of my defense, and claims.
I would like to resort to one of the many unwritten staff rules, And I wish not to allow you to continue to post on this thread: reasons being, that you are not the person who banned me.

In addition, Out of fear of you being biased towards this entire case, I don't want you to be involved in it either.

I'd like the decision (Of the Island dispute) to be completely up to an Admin, since I do not  acknowledge the decisions made by the moderators.
And of course, the Ban appeal is directed to Dewey, and his superiors.

If the moderators wish to provide evidences, or facts, I completely agree with that. However do NOT edit my post.

But i was present at the scene, so thus it gives me the right to post, so i will post as I feel necessary.

QuoteThis was land, that is rightfully ours, He built on it without permission from us

So land claimed by a paint line am i correct?

Quote from: Scotty602AB on September 22, 2012, 09:00:15 AM
Second of all, i quite frankly DO NOT care about your city's rules as these rules are not abdided by the entire server, so thus makes these laws petty and rather pointless.

Sorry for the double post, but I forgot about this bit.

I want to stress the following section of your quote:

Quote from: Scotty602AB on September 22, 2012, 09:00:15 AMyour city's rules as these rules are not abdided by the entire server

Correct, The laws do not apply on the entire server. The laws only apply on those who signed & agreed to it. IE: Official citizens of Stuttgart.

Which again I'll stress that he agreed to it here:
And as I posted before, This post was posted by his account. I'm quite sure that validates it, as a consent to the laws.
HE agreed to it, I didn't impose it on anyone.

Have you read and Agreed to abide by all Stuttgart's laws and any future changes to it? Yea

Do you live *Or have lived* in any other cities, If so please list them.  Nope

QuoteCorrect, The laws do not apply on the entire server. The laws only apply on those who signed & agreed to it. IE: Official citizens of Stuttgart.

But by posting something, It is not, and I repeat IS NOT a signature.

Quote from: Scotty602AB on September 22, 2012, 09:34:05 AM
But i was present at the scene, so thus it gives me the right to post, so i will post as I feel necessary.

Post all you want about why I was banned, However This is not your border dispute. This is Strictly Between The City of Stuttgart v.s Acornbulb.

And I'll wait for an admin to leave his verdict on who the Island belongs to.

Oh, I'd like to add about that ban anyways.

Quote from: Scotty602AB on September 22, 2012, 09:00:15 AM
Third of all you placed blocks on HIS island which counts as grief and the you destroyed HIS land bridge with is further grief

False, and a thousand times false.
You guys showed, told us to take down the fence, and mark the land around the Island.
We said okay, and we started to take down the fence.
Shortly after; one of you guys put a protection stone under the Island, after the fence was removed. (Then you dug it up later on, and continued to /vanish around us (Not to mention that a group of you started to destroy the dirt around us, and proceeded to place me into an AFK box, as I was afk.)

To go on, We started placing the fence around the Island as instructed. Now, there is one little junction there. There was a bridge going from the Island, to our land.
Which so happens not to exist in this picture here. http://i.imgur.com/X585r.jpg

In addition, the Bridge was created on 6-7, At that point we contacted Acorn, and asked him to remove the bridge, since it was intruding on our territory. And you can see from your own picture  http://i1153.photobucket.com/albums/p507/Scotty602AB/2012-09-22_093250_zpscc9ea03d.png

He took it down himself, Only to put it back up a 3 months later, when he was a member of the city. (That was a breach of our law).

Quote from: Scotty602AB on September 22, 2012, 09:42:54 AM

QuoteCorrect, The laws do not apply on the entire server. The laws only apply on those who signed & agreed to it. IE: Official citizens of Stuttgart.

But by posting something, It is not, and I repeat IS NOT a signature.

What is a signature for Scotty?
A signature is:
A distinctive pattern, product, or characteristic by which someone or something can be identified
- the chef produced the pâté that was his signature
- his signature dish

Now, What makes Acornbulb's post a signature?

The fact that it was posted from his account! The fact that the person posting it IS actually called "AcornBulb".
The point of a signature is to prove that a document is not forged.



Thank you for that wonderful post! Oh, Lovely Scotty!

Quote from: Hasan (Tabooti) on September 22, 2012, 09:28:39 AM
In addition, You are a biased person. Both you, and I have had grievances, and you do not like me, a wee bit. I suspect that you are supporting false claims out of vengeance.
In addition, Out of fear of you being biased towards this entire case, I don't want you to be involved in it either. (Edit: In the decision on whom the Island belongs to)

You're biased, and your post, is the proof. You made it personal, and backed up my claim that you have something against me.

Hmmm.

Tabooti.
Why did you have to be so freaking difficult?
U said.
Acorn u annexed half your land so Igenerator didnt include it
Me: Oh. U can make a fence around the whole place include it all
U: No I just cant deal with it your out

Right?
Ur friend built on a constitution site
It was a fence not even a building
So I replaced it a bit on the side

Now.
We agreed
That I would annex my land right?
I asked so hypothetically speaking U could kick me out?
U replied by saying
Yes I would but I will NOT
If I left stuttgard then it would be reasonable if u said Ok gimme the land
But I didn't


And if I go in stuttgard even if I am a citizen
And destroy somebody else's home, it is griefing member or not

Quote from: AcornBulb on September 22, 2012, 10:13:29 AM
Hmmm.

Tabooti.
Why did you have to be so freaking difficult?
U said.
Acorn u annexed half your land so Igenerator didnt include it
Me: Oh. U can make a fence around the whole place include it all
U: No I just cant deal with it your out

Right?
Ur friend built on a constitution site
It was a fence not even a building
So I replaced it a bit on the side

Now.
We agreed
That I would annex my land right?
I asked so hypothetically speaking U could kick me out?
U replied by saying
Yes I would but I will NOT
If I left stuttgard then it would be reasonable if u said Ok gimme the land
But I didn't


And if I go in stuttgard even if I am a citizen
And destroy somebody else's home, it is griefing member or not

I don't recall ever agreeing to the kicking out thing.
Aside from that, I've already posted on our thread, that we've kicked you out, and gave you back your land.
Your region, now belongs entirely to you, EXCEPT for half of the Island.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

The Island entire island, was never yours to begin with. Only half of it belongs to you. The other half belongs to our city.
Am I not right on that part?
If not, Why did you agree to the Laws that the land is actually ours?

This is a ban appeal, not an argument or RPG based court case - so please do not argue, or become defensive as pretty much all you need to say has in fact been said...

Tabooti, I don't want to get fully involved with your dispute but the laws that are in effect inside of your town do not alter the server's rules itself. You must still abide by the rules whatever your town or "government" says and destroying something that someone else made knowingly is no exception. Your town is inside the server so it is in fact governed by the server's rules, not your own. The untouched land that you have said to have taken control of is very large but you have not untill recently marked out in-game where the border is to lay.

Regardless, the land you have claimed is rediculiously large and considering you were away for a fairly long while you expect everything to be the same when you get back to your unbordered and unprotected city? I'm sure it is not that big of a deal to give away a tiny amount of your land to Acorn and this issue can be resolved a lot quicker.

I was not there at the time but after talking to people I am not going to take anyones side and I'm sorry if I have missed anything, but it seems to me you have overlooked a few things.

Quote from: Tobs on September 22, 2012, 10:23:54 AM
This is a ban appeal, not an argument or RPG based court case - so please do not argue, or become defensive as pretty much all you need to say has in fact been said...

Tabooti, I don't want to get fully involved with your dispute but the laws that are in effect inside of your town do not alter the server's rules itself. You must still abide by the rules whatever your town or "government" says and destroying something that someone else made knowingly is no exception. Your town is inside the server so it is in fact governed by the server's rules, not your own. The untouched land that you have said to have taken control of is very large but you have not untill recently marked out in-game where the border is to lay.

Regardless, the land you have claimed is rediculiously large and considering you were away for a fairly long while you expect everything to be the same when you get back to your unbordered and unprotected city? I'm sure it is not that big of a deal to give away a tiny amount of your land to Acorn and this issue can be resolved a lot quicker.

I was not there at the time but after talking to people I am not going to take anyones side and I'm sorry if I have missed anything, but it seems to me you have overlooked a few things.

I agree completely^^

Quote from: Tobs on September 22, 2012, 10:23:54 AM
This is a ban appeal, not an argument or RPG based court case - so please do not argue, or become defensive as pretty much all you need to say has in fact been said...

Tabooti, I don't want to get fully involved with your dispute but the laws that are in effect inside of your town do not alter the server's rules itself. You must still abide by the rules whatever your town or "government" says and destroying something that someone else made knowingly is no exception. Your town is inside the server so it is in fact governed by the server's rules, not your own. The untouched land that you have said to have taken control of is very large but you have not untill recently marked out in-game where the border is to lay.

Regardless, the land you have claimed is rediculiously large and considering you were away for a fairly long while you expect everything to be the same when you get back to your unbordered and unprotected city? I'm sure it is not that big of a deal to give away a tiny amount of your land to Acorn and this issue can be resolved a lot quicker.

I was not there at the time but after talking to people I am not going to take anyones side and I'm sorry if I have missed anything, but it seems to me you have overlooked a few things.

>The Laws were written to prevent this from happening.
>The Laws were written in form of an agreement between the Citizen & Government.
>The Laws are proof that both parties acknowledged the terms that were stated in the Lawbook
>The Laws do not alter the server's rules, Not replace them. As I've mentioned they are points, that are proof that both parties agree on.

This isn't in any form an RPG-based court.

The Island dispute is DIRECTLY related to the problem. The area that I "griefed" wasn't part of the Island, and by no means was it clear that it was.
I was instructed that I may build our border around the Island, Now if the Island has a bridge connecting the main-land, How long does it extend?

The Island dispute is why I was banned, I completely reject, and do not recognize that I griefed at all.
That is why the Island dispute is extremely important. His borders are not obvious, While ours are. BUT, Ours claim is being rejected, simply because a moderator refuses to recognize that "Agreeing to the rules is not a signature, thus it's invalid".

My case is very strong, and very clear.
I've provided evidence, and FACTS.
Weather you consider it RPG-Court or not, Is completely irreverent.

The base of the Problem is whom the Island belongs to, And there are NO rules anywhere outside the city threads, that make it clear on what is valid claims or not.

That's why I'm waiting for an admin to decide on the case.


Thank you for taking a fair, unbiased view at this Tobs, I really appreciate it. (Not sarcasm, Just in case it appears to be)

Quote from: Hasan (Tabooti) on September 22, 2012, 10:35:28 AM
The base of the Problem is whom the Island belongs to, And there are NO rules anywhere outside the city threads, that make it clear on what is valid claims or not.

Protection stones and project/city protection are both within the rules and very clear ways in which protection/claims area avalible. Borders around your area, be it walls or fences, are not protected or in the rules but easily define where your area is.

Would you be willing to settle if the bridge to your land was to be removed and the fence over Acorn's land were both to be removed, and your fence move around the island and surrounding water? Acorn is happy to remove the bridge if you are willing to move the fence onto the edge of your land?