Opticraft Community

- Requested by Operator Whatshiywl to post/create this thread in General Discussion.
- Requesting Operators to post their own more or less detailed standards for recruiting.
- Requesting to sticky this topic for potential Recruits to view.

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My personal observations when determining if a player has earned a promotion or not.

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Everything

2+ Shapes - Squares/boxes do not count.

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Houses

If talking about houses - Detail Exterior, would require some type of decorations that do not look slapped on, but integrated into the home. Interior would include at least 5 or more of the following.

Beds (detailed - not those 3x2x1 beds neither)

Lights (Preferred chandeliers)

Dining room, mainly the chairs and table that would look like they belong - along with good lighting/view of the outside.

Interior architectural design. Where walls are placed inside, preferred that it is a 2-story home as well.

(Couches, Chairs, Beds, Shelves, Tv's, gardens, are all extremely easy to make, but they still count towards the overall interior and even exterior designs. It all depends on the placement and how well made they are.)

Garden (Again - decent architectural designs, not just a batch of flowers and call it a garden type of thing.)

Swimming Pool (Preferred Shape Oval or Circle - may include diving board(s) and/or a creative display of water currents - such as a slide or waterfall setup.)

More complexity to the roof(s) on top of the house. Than just a simple box, triangle, or pyramid.

Extensions to the household. (Examples being Green House Garden, Spleef Arena, Pools, Roads, Bars, and so on.)

Just overall creativity and more than likely something big, such as a mansion is my expectations on a house. There is a bit more to what I look for, but it may seem my standards are always high.

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Creative Builds

I do NOT look or even consider creepers.

Nor do I look for box/block figures. Anything that is a giant block is either not worth the effort or may even be considered a sprite (get to sprites in a minute)

When viewing creative builds, I look for flaws in the structure rather than the positive aspects or general build that is presented. In other words, the less flaws I see the more impressed I am. I look for realism (of course i don't care much for blank colors, so brighten/darken it, make it flashy, go all out without trying to kill my eyes as a result. - hurt my eyes, you are out of luck.)

The problem with creative builds that I have come across so far is how small some people make them. When I think small builds I mean they could be gigantic in height and length, but practically sprites when they are so skinny.. Weapons are alright, but when you reduce the size of a guns barrel or the hilt and/or blade of a sword to just a 1x1 blocks then I have a problem.

As I said before I search for flaws, but I also search for everything I'd expect to find in any said creation. This includes shapes, detail, realism, effort, and overall creativity. I want to see works of art, I want to find all kinds of shapes, detail, strong foundations and builds that would amaze anyone for a long time to come.

Basically I look for masterpieces or at minimal, I want to see a novice work on adept skill level.

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Sprites.

Sprites are rarely ever ranked. Someone may come along once in a blue moon with something amazing.. (only seen that once as op so far.)

But don't expect a sprite rank unless it is truly amazing work of art.

Creations such as swords for a decent example.. I will almost always consider sprites unless players put in the effort to make the swords look almost 3D. Beyond that, there is simply no interest and swords are far to easy to make anyway, no matter how.. tall or wide you make them.

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Assisting Players or 2+ player builds.

All Operators would have to double their usual standards or higher, depending on just how many players are building together on 1 project.

It is common for 2 players and sometimes 3 to be working together. It is rare when it is 4 or more players working together. When there is 4+ players. I'd expect a small city with shapes and a lot of detail in every build they take on. - 3 I would be looking for something close to a colossal high-quality detailed Titanic. 2 Would be just short of a 2-story highly detailed and various shaped Metro Mall.

But my standards might be too high for many.. I like to think that players who put in the time and effort to make something amazing deserve a rank.

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Asking/Begging

Yeah... Ask all you want, beg as much as you want, unless you "earn" a promotion in any of the above said do not expect any promotions from me. - Only thing you can expect if you don't be quiet after asking numerous times is kicks for spamming.

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I more than likely forgot about a lot of stuff, but this is all off the top of my head.

I like this guide. It'll definitely help newbie ops develop some form of standard when reviewing builds. This goes for recruits and builders as well, since some volunteer to help ease the load or substitute for operators. While this method might not be adopted by all, it is certainly a good example to look onto, for those who try to develop consistent standard when reviewing.

Good job on this alpha!

In the nicest and possible way, this guide is terrible.

What you mean by "Promotion" standards, is every build is the same standards. How much can you change from that list? Maybe a few different colours? A different size? Yeah...

Every op has their own standards, that's fine, uniformity leads to a lack of creativeness.

Also, a few of the things you listed are impossible:

2+ Shapes with no squares/boxes.

Are you kidding me? Its a house. All houses are boxes. My recruit build was a box. Many of my builder builds were boxes. And 2+? Wut? How can you have a house with 2 shapes? I mean, you could, but it would look terrible unless you were an excellent builder. All recruit is, is making sure these guys aren't total noobs, not Best of Opticraft competition.

Beds

Bigger than 3*2*1? They don't have unlimited space you know, I mean, they could have a massively oversized bed, with a normal sized house, if that would make you happy. But if not, the scale would be way off, their builds would have to be builder level atleast.

Lights

I have come on many times, there are often 2 or 1 builders on max, maybe 1 op if you're lucky. How is this guest meant to get lava, you can't expect a recruit to come find him, builders are mostly busy. All it will be is: Who can spam the most to get lava.

Dining room

Are you telling me that my dining room HAS to have a view of the outside? Restricting creativity bro. And for lighting: See above.

Garden

So, you tell me what more I can make for a garden. I might have a batch of flowers, maybe a tree and a path, and a hedge. What more can you make with classic blocks?

Swimming pool

1. See lights for my view on water/lava
2. You can't get water currents, so scratch out your creative uses.
3. How many real life swimming pools do you see that are circles?

Roof

How many shapes of roofs can I make for 1 build? They are all basically going to be the same.

Extensions to houses

You forget that there will be griefing (No, there are never going to be enough ops to stop all griefing). And maybe... 50%? Of people get an op to repair it. While massive builds would be nice, its basically a race, and you don't have time to build a town before the griefers come.


Creepers

One day, I will get a few crafters together, to build an amazing creeper. Maybe you'll take that statement back then. You have no idea how good or bad that creeper is. It is foolish to pre-judge.

Box/block figures

I partly agree there, but it is a case by case scenario dude. I once saw this AMAZING companion cube. Was it a box? Yes. Did it show talent? Yes. Did it show potential? Well, yes. Did I promote him? Yes. Case closed.

Looking for flaws

As I said, build by build scenario. If there are 100 flaws, but 1000 amazing parts, then maybe he does deserve the promotion.

Smallness

Alright, but case by case scenario, again.

Both masterpieces, and the thingy above it

THESE ARE GODDAMN GUESTS. THEY SHOULD NOT BE EXPECTED TO AMAZE. ALL IT IS, IS STANDING OUT. THESE ARE NOT CRAFTERS. THESE ARE G.U.E.S.T.S.


Sprites

Wut? Let me just ask you this: Have you seen some of Monkey's first sprites? They were good, but not your so called masterpieces. Case by case, its not: Its a sprite, so it sucks. Instead: Hmm, its a sprite, but it shows talent, I think you could go far. Remember: Case by case.


Number of builders

As a general rule, times your standard by 1.75 to 2. Also, always remember to /about the work. If one guy has built 90% and the other 10%, the first guy deserves a promotion, possibly even if it would not be good enough for both of them, while the 10% guy doesn't.

Asking/Begging

If they beg after you say no, that's one thing. If they ask repeatedly because they have no answer that's another thing. Its the same with water and lava.

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In summary, I have to say, this topic worries me, and I am considering becoming active, and applying again. As much as I have my own opinions about the classic server, it is my Minecraft home, where I started out, and I don't want to see it die.

I hope this clears up a few things from my (just under a) year of operating.

1. Asking players to make multi-shaped houses is not that bad, nor hard to create.

2. Regular beds are only 6 blocks. While some Ops don't really care about it, I like seeing players become more creative with their designs.

3. You don't need lava to make lights. Wool colors, sand, and obsidian work fine, depending on the blocks used in player builds.

4. No, you don't have to add scenery to any room, but it is nice to add realism to your builds in my opinion.

5. Gardens can be rather creative to build. Here's an example build.

A church with a garden/small forest outside and surrounded the building. Maybe potted flowers next to windows or under skylights inside the church; flowers for the departed in a cemetery.

6. Majority of players tend to build wide and not large structure buildings, making their roofs flat. You tell me what kind of roofs players can make with all that unused space.

7. 1. See above for the wool colors.
    2. You can build the illusion that there are water currents. (I even did this with my first swimming pool builds)
    3. Hot tubs/jacoozi's (spellcheck) are usually circles to add an appeal to customers at hotels of any level. Some traps back in time have been circular to make it harder to escape them; some filled with water due to rainfalls, and of course theirs the water parks that make variety of shapes at their pools as part of their overall attraction plans. Etc etc...

8. You got your promotions when it was easier too acquire them, standards are raised so players with even better building skills can get promoted; so players roughly your skill level are still stuck as guests until they learn how to build better.

Quote from: Alpha_Lance on July 07, 2012, 08:54:08 AM
1. Asking players to make multi-shaped houses is not that bad, nor hard to create.

2. Regular beds are only 6 blocks. While some Ops don't really care about it, I like seeing players become more creative with their designs.

3. You don't need lava to make lights. Wool colors, sand, and obsidian work fine, depending on the blocks used in player builds.

4. No, you don't have to add scenery to any room, but it is nice to add realism to your builds in my opinion.

5. Gardens can be rather creative to build. Here's an example build.

A church with a garden/small forest outside and surrounded the building. Maybe potted flowers next to windows or under skylights inside the church; flowers for the departed in a cemetery.

6. Majority of players tend to build wide and not large structure buildings, making their roofs flat. You tell me what kind of roofs players can make with all that unused space.

7. 1. See above for the wool colors.
    2. You can build the illusion that there are water currents. (I even did this with my first swimming pool builds)
    3. Hot tubs/jacoozi's (spellcheck) are usually circles to add an appeal to customers at hotels of any level. Some traps back in time have been circular to make it harder to escape them; some filled with water due to rainfalls, and of course theirs the water parks that make variety of shapes at their pools as part of their overall attraction plans. Etc etc...

8. You got your promotions when it was easier too acquire them, standards are raised so players with even better building skills can get promoted; so players roughly your skill level are still stuck as guests until they learn how to build better.

1. Look in the world, look anywhere. Most buildings are made up of 1 shape, whether they are pyramids (The Shard) or a rectangle or so (99% of skyscrapers) or even a pentagon (Hmm... What would be a Pentagon? ). Not 2 shapes.

2. You still didn't answer my question about scale. Lets make a 12 block bed then. So the room has to be twice as big, or it looks wrong. Then the house has to be twice as big. Then there is less room, and more chance of it being griefed (Its bigger, easier to see).

3. I'm sorry, but who has a red light? Or a blue light? Or a peachy coloured, or a black light. It just doesn't happen. In my years of Minecraft classic, I've never seen a build with wool or obsidian or sand lights. Ever.

4. Realism? This is minecraft bro. My chair isn't even a meter wide, and yet a Minecraft block is, so that's the best you can do.

5. Small forest = basically trees. "Potted flowers" are basically 1 dirt block, then a flower. And flowers for the departed? What was that you said about batches of flowers?

6. Sure. Sloped. Flat. Maybe domed, on a circular building (But that would invalidate your 2+ shapes, if you only had 1 circle shape) There are your options.

7.
   2. If you say so...
   3. A jacuzzi =/= a swimming pool. You said swimming pools. A trap =/= a swimming pool, how did you even get to that? And you don't get waterparks at houses either.

8. I'm not sure if you're trying to tell me that I suck at building? I was going to go for crafter at one point, until we decided my name looked bad in purple, and better in blue (No, seriously). But anyhow, if you say stuck, you basically mean rage quit when the ops ignore their good builds, because they don't have 2+ shapes, or whatever. Then they don't continue, don't donate, the server looses money, and eventually classic closes, because its too full of elitist (Yes, I took that a bit far, but meh)

I often find myself reviewing a guest/member's builld while an op is busy (or not on).

Here is the system I use. This system will be somewhat similar to an idea I had for an event that I pmed relkeb about. Hopefully you guys will be able to see that soon, anyway here it is.

General Standards
As alpha said; if the person built a box house or a small rectangular box I will immediately tell them about our high standards and how they need to work on making it  bigger. (and I tell them they need more exterior detail). If the player uses shapes (any kind really. circles, angles etc..) then I will be more inclined to give them a positive rating and perhaps even call an op over to see it.

Houses
Exterior detail- The boring one block exterior i see on most guest houses is overused and unoriginal. I tell the guest to use different block in the walls of the house making it look original and unique.

Beds- If the guest has a bed then that is a surprise to me, lots of guests build the outside of a house and consider it done, really any kind of bed will make me happy.

Lights- chandeliers

Kitchen/ eating areas- If they have a kitchen then this means they probably have different rooms. This is good. The eating areas themselves are easy.  table with chairs, if the guest fail to deliver this than "points" off.

Furniture- as long as some furniture is placed around the house, that is a good start.

Interior design- if the guest does not have any interior design matching the outside's theme then I will tell them to add some. Interior design makes the house look better.

Garden- This is needed. Houses with gardens and patios around them look much nicer than a normal house.

Pool- Meh, i dont really care about the pool.

Roof- must have. No box/pyramid. Maybe start off with a pyramid and end with a balcony.


Creative Builds

As alpha said I will immediately turn down a creeper or a pyramid.

I also turn down "statues" of steve (most statues I see don't even have proper dimensions).

If the build does not suck and is original then I am likely to rate it positively.


Sprites

Sprites have to be "mrmonkey" good to be ranked. I have never seen someone ranked by sprites. Most of the sprites I see are small faces or figures.

Assisting Players

Solo-What is expected from me normally.

Duet- Kinda harder. I expect to see good teamwork and a highly impressing build.

Triplet-Nope, it would have to be out of this world incredible.

Quadruplet- No way any guest is gonna be able to build this good.

These standards do seem quite strict for a recruit, definitely good for a builder quality build though.
we aren't trying to keep less skilled players out, we want everyone to be able to have fun. If a player obviously doesn't deserve recruit have him keep trying, also even if his builds aren't that good at all but he's tried hard, put a few days into trying and being friendly with the community, then I feel he or she is worthy of recruit. Recruit isn't necessarily a building rank like Builder and Crafter. But on the building aspect you do need standards just not this high. I've promoted for a few "fair" looking builds if one build doesn't do it for a player.

Quote from: Wratkie on July 07, 2012, 01:14:07 PM
These standards do seem quite strict for a recruit, definitely good for a builder quality build though.
we aren't trying to keep less skilled players out, we want everyone to be able to have fun. If a player obviously doesn't deserve recruit have him keep trying, also even if his builds aren't that good at all but he's tried hard, put a few days into trying and being friendly with the community, then I feel he or she is worthy of recruit. Recruit isn't necessarily a building rank like Builder and Crafter. But on the building aspect you do need standards just not this high. I've promoted for a few "fair" looking builds if one build doesn't do it for a player.

This is basically what I was trying to say, summed up into 1 paragraph.

I go "hmm thats recruit quality" or "hmm thats no recruit quality"

As bad as you make my personal standards sound. It has still turned out rather well for the most part, as many of the players I promote either have already known how to build awesome stuff or they learned by actually trying to be creative; some getting advice, others going to recruit/builder worlds to view all of our work.

Recruit rank should be something you earn and when you have earned it, you have the tools you require to go for Builder.

As "harsh" as any of this sounds, it is not intended to be. Not to mention majority of the active Operators have been reviewing with roughly these standards anyway. If it was different then my post would of most likely been different since some of my standards are from watching how other ops review builds.

- By the way, this thread is not meant to be strict, it's simply "personal" standards. Not "set" standards as Clawstriders been getting sideways about and I requested other ops to post their own standards.

I honestly do believe that setting standards like that really leaves no room for creativity. You have to remember that we should be using the word "standards" in a general sense because you CANNOT standardize creativity.

Let me be blunt about this.

Standards and creativity debates is NOT the point of this thread.

The only point of this thread was for Operators to post their own ideas and what they may or may not favor in player builds, so new operators can feel more comfortable in handling reviews - members and perhaps guests who want to know what goes through our heads can understand and most likely try to get an edge in earning promotions. (Some by building exactly what certain Ops like.)

All Operators can only promote "Awesome" builds, but what ARE awesome builds? They are builds that operators in their own opinions consider awesome.

For me, I consider awesome to be my initial post, something with multiple shapes, great structure, amazing exterior and interior detail and so on. Another operator will have their own opinion.

I have NOT asked players to limit themselves in anyway and anyone who says different is wrong.


This thread was blown completely out of proportion and it was originally intended to help players guests/members/operators.

I for one couldn't even get my own thoughts in line when trying to review players. Up until I wrote down everything that I perceived to be accurate in what I do look for. I'm not saying builds need to meet all my personal standards.

Claw, like you said, every op has different standards. These are Alpha's standards. That is all I have to say.

Quote from: Nick3306 on July 07, 2012, 08:46:20 PM
I honestly do believe that setting standards like that really leaves no room for creativity. You have to remember that we should be using the word "standards" in a general sense because you CANNOT standardize creativity.

Well this is really just the minimum work that should be looked at. We aren't setting a limit to people's creativity, just trying to get them to build above and beyond our normal standards.

I'm looking through this thread seeing ops argue. this doesn't look professional nor helping guest understand. And the things with the beds, some bed can be canopy style, or a bed with drawers  under it. Most of the time, a mattress isn't on the floor, it is on a frame.