Are people still going to be able to afk at spawners? That's way more resource demanding than anything I've ever done.
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Started by Nick3306, June 27, 2012, 05:41:40 AM
Melon and pumpkin discussion
The reason I see you oppose this is because your own a very large Mellon farm which you don't want to give up.
Can I ask how much of you money, percentage wise, came from selling melons; I believe it would be alot. So you made money from a natural game process rather then mining or actually working.
don't trivialize it. money spent and time invested are serious things to minecraft players. (herpderp serious gamer. hush. i dont want to hear it.)
but thats not where the issue lies, and i bet ill be ridiculed enough by people kissing up to mods for trusted status. but here goes anyway:
Im a newish player.. been here for about two-three weeks. its taken me A LOT to buy the few 11x11 stones i have. and thats just so my base camp doesnt get griefed, and so 1 mob spawner i found doesnt get taken before i can afford to build on it.
what about the time ive spent and diamond pickaxes wasted to clear an underground area for a farm? even then ive only scavenged enough resources for 1 level.. IF it wasnt found by griefers. But, I hoped to build on that and eventually have something that would generate a solid income.
now what are my options? Ive been told to spend "10minutes mining iron" and "work up form there". Im sorry, forgive my naiveté, but 50$ a ingot? (-charcoal used to create it..) 1100 ingots for the diamond ps? Ive spent a solid week trying to clear a 41x41x22 area.. ive found ~4stacks of iron... how is this is a viable source of income?
Some mentioned to open a shop, and if it gets griefed, call a mod to fix it. thats exactly how i want to play. instead of building awesome things, i can sit around spamming for people to visit my shop. just to sell a few stacks of sand or cobble for a couple hundred $. i have to worry about it getting griefed, and if it does, hope i get a mod who is sympathetic and not having a bad day "you should have protected it with a ps stone" (yes actual quote)
You guys are taking away pivotal items in your player based economy because "some members are getting too rich". But by doing this you hurt any player just trying to get on their feet... trying to build a presence on the server, to make a name for themselves.
but no. instead i i have to fight tooth and nail for small protection stones so i dont get griefed every day. Abandon a large project because now it means nothing. deal with other players building cities next to me just because they want to annoy someone... oh and there isnt any protection so too bad.
not that this post is going to make a difference. im the minority. im just another new player who is poor. haha sucks for me. why listen to me when you have (some) Trusteds circlejerking over themselves, and kissing up to mods.
But what are my options? deal with it, or go play somewhere else. i dont know which yet.
Good. You're doing it right. You're starting small with coal ores to prevent grief in small places; that's perfect.
But then comes the immediate problem: You're a new player, and you've immediately jumped on the bandwagon; the best way to make money, by far, is the automatic farms. That's problem #1, and it shouldn't happen. Every new member will try to do the same as you, which is exactly why we are removing melons and pumpkins.
Diamonds are free from voting. You wasted maybe a log or two and a chunk of time by clearing out an area. I'm sure you can find something to put in your cleared area - it's minecraft. Be creative.
This is a completely valid point. We realize that there aren't enough options to make money other than selling to the market: we are definitely looking into alternatives such as a player-based Auction House. But trust me, mining in general used to be the go-to way to make money before automatic farms began trending. It's quite profitable given that you can sell nearly every block you end up breaking.
That's problem #2; you've said it yourself. "instead of building awesome things ..." This is a hardcore survival server. You're not supposed to come on to the server and "build awesome things" in a short period of time. You have to work your way up. Automatic farms completely broke the process of building your way up, which is another reason why we are removing them.
This has been addressed. Building an automatic farm provides too much income. It breaks the concept of survival. When nobody can make huge profits and we implement money sinks and figure out a fair way to stabilize the economy, things will not look so bad. This is just the necessary first step in fixing the problem that the melon farms created.
Yes, you do have to fight tooth and nail. Protection stones are a key part of the work-your-way-up process. Survival[/i] server. If you are being harassed by other players building near you just to cause you grief, please report it and it will be taken care of. Problem #3: You're a new member on the server and you started a "large project." That's not supposed to happen. Work your way up, yo.
You are not helping your case. The staff is not like that. We are reasonable people and aware of the major issues and will work to fix them. We're, as I put it in-game, not dumb-dumbs. We take your feedback to heart and all we can do is apologize that you were caught at an awkward time. You decided to go for the automatic farm to "get on your feet" as a new player and now that we're removing them, you feel cheated. That is understandable, but please know that it is a necessary step - this should have never happened in the first place, and we will make sure something like this doesn't affect more future members.
--
Another thing to think about: Right now, money is pretty much exclusively spent in the market. I don't like that. We need to implement new ways for players to give money to each other rather than the infinite-supply market. It's simply not a fun concept. The market should never have grown to be the "go-to" place to buy items.
LOL
I should at least get formal, server-wide recognition for having a farm that was so good the authorities had to intervene.
You're not the first one.
Anyways
I just don't see how selling melons is more efficient than selling PURE iron gold bars.
Everyone should read what cschurz posted.
I know from personal experience on my local server that if you afk overnight like that and allow that many mobs to pile up that is way worse than anything I've ever made redstone-related. It's probably why mobs were so fucked on the original server in the first place.
Now you're an expert on craftbukkit++'s internals in regards to redstone circuits?
please, you've only spammed the topic thus far with ridiculous crap. you're not helping anything. Keep this topic to well-reasoned complaints and discussion.
prinkey00
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Quote from: prinkey00 on June 27, 2012, 06:19:09 AM
Instead of removal, just reduce their selling price dramatically. Selling two and a half stacks of pumpkin shouldn't be equal to what a diamond sells for at the market.
The reason I see you oppose this is because your own a very large Mellon farm which you don't want to give up.
Can I ask how much of you money, percentage wise, came from selling melons; I believe it would be alot. So you made money from a natural game process rather then mining or actually working.
Emyrs
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Quote from: clawstrider on June 27, 2012, 05:49:35 AM
To save time, I'll post just about every comment you will get:
Raargh, my melon farm *Rage*. Spent so much money on it, it's not fair! You can't change market!! *Rage* So... angry...
Not that I agree with that, but there you go.
don't trivialize it. money spent and time invested are serious things to minecraft players. (herpderp serious gamer. hush. i dont want to hear it.)
but thats not where the issue lies, and i bet ill be ridiculed enough by people kissing up to mods for trusted status. but here goes anyway:
Im a newish player.. been here for about two-three weeks. its taken me A LOT to buy the few 11x11 stones i have. and thats just so my base camp doesnt get griefed, and so 1 mob spawner i found doesnt get taken before i can afford to build on it.
what about the time ive spent and diamond pickaxes wasted to clear an underground area for a farm? even then ive only scavenged enough resources for 1 level.. IF it wasnt found by griefers. But, I hoped to build on that and eventually have something that would generate a solid income.
now what are my options? Ive been told to spend "10minutes mining iron" and "work up form there". Im sorry, forgive my naiveté, but 50$ a ingot? (-charcoal used to create it..) 1100 ingots for the diamond ps? Ive spent a solid week trying to clear a 41x41x22 area.. ive found ~4stacks of iron... how is this is a viable source of income?
Some mentioned to open a shop, and if it gets griefed, call a mod to fix it. thats exactly how i want to play. instead of building awesome things, i can sit around spamming for people to visit my shop. just to sell a few stacks of sand or cobble for a couple hundred $. i have to worry about it getting griefed, and if it does, hope i get a mod who is sympathetic and not having a bad day "you should have protected it with a ps stone" (yes actual quote)
You guys are taking away pivotal items in your player based economy because "some members are getting too rich". But by doing this you hurt any player just trying to get on their feet... trying to build a presence on the server, to make a name for themselves.
but no. instead i i have to fight tooth and nail for small protection stones so i dont get griefed every day. Abandon a large project because now it means nothing. deal with other players building cities next to me just because they want to annoy someone... oh and there isnt any protection so too bad.
not that this post is going to make a difference. im the minority. im just another new player who is poor. haha sucks for me. why listen to me when you have (some) Trusteds circlejerking over themselves, and kissing up to mods.
But what are my options? deal with it, or go play somewhere else. i dont know which yet.
Nick3306
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Quote from: prinkey00 on June 27, 2012, 06:38:09 AMI would love to see your evidence to back up this claim.
Are people still going to be able to afk at spawners? That's way more resource demanding than anything I've ever done.
optical
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Quote from: prinkey00 on June 27, 2012, 06:38:09 AMTighter mob throttling on spawners will be coming soon to prevent that exact issue.
Are people still going to be able to afk at spawners? That's way more resource demanding than anything I've ever done.
Matty585
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#20
Hmm, I am against this, but also with it.
Here's what I say:
With: I do agree, it does use a LOT of CPU usage, and there are other ways of getting money, such as donating at Opticraft.net. Removing it may get more people to donate, which I think is good in a way. As I said before, there are many other ways of gaining money.
Against: There may be other ways of getting money, but melon and pumpkins give players a LOT of money which they need for their big creations, and, some people say quite often that Market is a little bit over-priced. And, some people have manuael farms, which (to my knowlage) wouldn't lag out the server.
So that's what I say
Here's what I say:
With: I do agree, it does use a LOT of CPU usage, and there are other ways of getting money, such as donating at Opticraft.net. Removing it may get more people to donate, which I think is good in a way. As I said before, there are many other ways of gaining money.
Against: There may be other ways of getting money, but melon and pumpkins give players a LOT of money which they need for their big creations, and, some people say quite often that Market is a little bit over-priced. And, some people have manuael farms, which (to my knowlage) wouldn't lag out the server.
So that's what I say
cschurz
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Quote
Im a newish player.. been here for about two-three weeks. its taken me A LOT to buy the few 11x11 stones i have. and thats just so my base camp doesnt get griefed, and so 1 mob spawner i found doesnt get taken before i can afford to build on it.
Good. You're doing it right. You're starting small with coal ores to prevent grief in small places; that's perfect.
But then comes the immediate problem: You're a new player, and you've immediately jumped on the bandwagon; the best way to make money, by far, is the automatic farms. That's problem #1, and it shouldn't happen. Every new member will try to do the same as you, which is exactly why we are removing melons and pumpkins.
Quote
what about the time ive spent and diamond pickaxes wasted to clear an underground area for a farm? even then ive only scavenged enough resources for 1 level.. IF it wasnt found by griefers. But, I hoped to build on that and eventually have something that would generate a solid income.
Diamonds are free from voting. You wasted maybe a log or two and a chunk of time by clearing out an area. I'm sure you can find something to put in your cleared area - it's minecraft. Be creative.
Quote
now what are my options? Ive been told to spend "10minutes mining iron" and "work up form there". Im sorry, forgive my naiveté, but 50$ a ingot? (-charcoal used to create it..) 1100 ingots for the diamond ps? Ive spent a solid week trying to clear a 41x41x22 area.. ive found ~4stacks of iron... how is this is a viable source of income?
This is a completely valid point. We realize that there aren't enough options to make money other than selling to the market: we are definitely looking into alternatives such as a player-based Auction House. But trust me, mining in general used to be the go-to way to make money before automatic farms began trending. It's quite profitable given that you can sell nearly every block you end up breaking.
Quote
Some mentioned to open a shop, and if it gets griefed, call a mod to fix it. thats exactly how i want to play. instead of building awesome things, i can sit around spamming for people to visit my shop. just to sell a few stacks of sand or cobble for a couple hundred $. i have to worry about it getting griefed, and if it does, hope i get a mod who is sympathetic and not having a bad day "you should have protected it with a ps stone" (yes actual quote)
That's problem #2; you've said it yourself. "instead of building awesome things ..." This is a hardcore survival server. You're not supposed to come on to the server and "build awesome things" in a short period of time. You have to work your way up. Automatic farms completely broke the process of building your way up, which is another reason why we are removing them.
Quote
You guys are taking away pivotal items in your player based economy because "some members are getting too rich". But by doing this you hurt any player just trying to get on their feet... trying to build a presence on the server, to make a name for themselves.
This has been addressed. Building an automatic farm provides too much income. It breaks the concept of survival. When nobody can make huge profits and we implement money sinks and figure out a fair way to stabilize the economy, things will not look so bad. This is just the necessary first step in fixing the problem that the melon farms created.
Quote
but no. instead i i have to fight tooth and nail for small protection stones so i dont get griefed every day. Abandon a large project because now it means nothing. deal with other players building cities next to me just because they want to annoy someone... oh and there isnt any protection so too bad.
Yes, you do have to fight tooth and nail. Protection stones are a key part of the work-your-way-up process. Survival[/i] server. If you are being harassed by other players building near you just to cause you grief, please report it and it will be taken care of. Problem #3: You're a new member on the server and you started a "large project." That's not supposed to happen. Work your way up, yo.
Quote
not that this post is going to make a difference. im the minority. im just another new player who is poor. haha sucks for me. why listen to me when you have (some) Trusteds circlejerking over themselves, and kissing up to mods.
You are not helping your case. The staff is not like that. We are reasonable people and aware of the major issues and will work to fix them. We're, as I put it in-game, not dumb-dumbs. We take your feedback to heart and all we can do is apologize that you were caught at an awkward time. You decided to go for the automatic farm to "get on your feet" as a new player and now that we're removing them, you feel cheated. That is understandable, but please know that it is a necessary step - this should have never happened in the first place, and we will make sure something like this doesn't affect more future members.
--
Another thing to think about: Right now, money is pretty much exclusively spent in the market. I don't like that. We need to implement new ways for players to give money to each other rather than the infinite-supply market. It's simply not a fun concept. The market should never have grown to be the "go-to" place to buy items.
prinkey00
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Quote from: Nick3306 on June 27, 2012, 06:37:36 AMQuote from: prinkey00 on June 27, 2012, 06:32:33 AMCant tell if serious.....Quote from: bhoughton on June 27, 2012, 06:13:32 AM
By removing the pumpkins/melons from the market is good for two reasons/statements
1) people are not making money by afking.
2) remember this, this IS a survival server; is afking really part of a survival aspect?
How do you think people make money in the real world? By farming! And I bet they're AFK half the time too.
LOL
I should at least get formal, server-wide recognition for having a farm that was so good the authorities had to intervene.
SalasCraft
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#23
Quote from: prinkey00 on June 27, 2012, 07:18:41 AMQuote from: Nick3306 on June 27, 2012, 06:37:36 AMQuote from: prinkey00 on June 27, 2012, 06:32:33 AMCant tell if serious.....Quote from: bhoughton on June 27, 2012, 06:13:32 AM
By removing the pumpkins/melons from the market is good for two reasons/statements
1) people are not making money by afking.
2) remember this, this IS a survival server; is afking really part of a survival aspect?
How do you think people make money in the real world? By farming! And I bet they're AFK half the time too.
LOL
I should at least get formal, server-wide recognition for having a farm that was so good the authorities had to intervene.
You're not the first one.
Anyways
I just don't see how selling melons is more efficient than selling PURE iron gold bars.
Nick3306
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Quote from: prinkey00 on June 27, 2012, 07:18:41 AMThere are bigger farms on the server than yours.Quote from: Nick3306 on June 27, 2012, 06:37:36 AMQuote from: prinkey00 on June 27, 2012, 06:32:33 AMCant tell if serious.....Quote from: bhoughton on June 27, 2012, 06:13:32 AM
By removing the pumpkins/melons from the market is good for two reasons/statements
1) people are not making money by afking.
2) remember this, this IS a survival server; is afking really part of a survival aspect?
How do you think people make money in the real world? By farming! And I bet they're AFK half the time too.
LOL
I should at least get formal, server-wide recognition for having a farm that was so good the authorities had to intervene.
Everyone should read what cschurz posted.
prinkey00
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#25
Quote from: arsenic_shark on June 27, 2012, 06:39:07 AMI've sold maybe two or three stacks of melons ever, so it's less than .00001%.Quote from: prinkey00 on June 27, 2012, 06:19:09 AM
Instead of removal, just reduce their selling price dramatically. Selling two and a half stacks of pumpkin shouldn't be equal to what a diamond sells for at the market.
The reason I see you oppose this is because your own a very large Mellon farm which you don't want to give up.
Can I ask how much of you money, percentage wise, came from selling melons; I believe it would be alot. So you made money from a natural game process rather then mining or actually working.
Quote from: Nick3306 on June 27, 2012, 06:49:06 AMQuote from: prinkey00 on June 27, 2012, 06:38:09 AMI would love to see your evidence to back up this claim.
Are people still going to be able to afk at spawners? That's way more resource demanding than anything I've ever done.
I know from personal experience on my local server that if you afk overnight like that and allow that many mobs to pile up that is way worse than anything I've ever made redstone-related. It's probably why mobs were so fucked on the original server in the first place.
Quote from: SalasCraft on June 27, 2012, 07:20:10 AMSee: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MonsantoQuote from: prinkey00 on June 27, 2012, 07:18:41 AMQuote from: Nick3306 on June 27, 2012, 06:37:36 AMQuote from: prinkey00 on June 27, 2012, 06:32:33 AMCant tell if serious.....Quote from: bhoughton on June 27, 2012, 06:13:32 AM
By removing the pumpkins/melons from the market is good for two reasons/statements
1) people are not making money by afking.
2) remember this, this IS a survival server; is afking really part of a survival aspect?
How do you think people make money in the real world? By farming! And I bet they're AFK half the time too.
LOL
I should at least get formal, server-wide recognition for having a farm that was so good the authorities had to intervene.
You're not the first one.
Anyways
I just don't see how selling melons is more efficient than selling PURE iron gold bars.
Quote from: Nick3306 on June 27, 2012, 07:22:30 AMBigger, maybe, but not better. Mine is super efficient, emphasis on super, and designed specifically to avoid causing an overwhelming amount of lag. Anyways, I never heard it mentioned once until I saw people at my farm non-stop. I literally had to move my home and play on my brother's account to avoid all the attention.Quote from: prinkey00 on June 27, 2012, 07:18:41 AMThere are bigger farms on the server than yours.Quote from: Nick3306 on June 27, 2012, 06:37:36 AMQuote from: prinkey00 on June 27, 2012, 06:32:33 AMCant tell if serious.....Quote from: bhoughton on June 27, 2012, 06:13:32 AM
By removing the pumpkins/melons from the market is good for two reasons/statements
1) people are not making money by afking.
2) remember this, this IS a survival server; is afking really part of a survival aspect?
How do you think people make money in the real world? By farming! And I bet they're AFK half the time too.
LOL
I should at least get formal, server-wide recognition for having a farm that was so good the authorities had to intervene.
Everyone should read what cschurz posted.
Spamarian
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Guys? I want to mention that since the price on mellons dropped at 480$ I have seen the server with 50-100 players less.
Can you tell me when was the last time with 230+++ players online?
When was the time with 200 players online?
Guys? Now, I see on average 80, with top 130-+?. Have you realised why?
Can you tell me when was the last time with 230+++ players online?
When was the time with 200 players online?
Guys? Now, I see on average 80, with top 130-+?. Have you realised why?
Nick3306
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Quote from: Spamarian on June 27, 2012, 07:41:51 AMIf people want to leave because they can't gain massive amounts of money really fast, more power to them.
Guys? I want to mention that since the price on mellons dropped at 480$ I have seen the server with 50-100 players less.
Can you tell me when was the last time with 230+++ players online?
When was the time with 200 players online?
Guys? Now, I see on average 80, with top 130-+?. Have you realised why?
cschurz
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Quote
Bigger, maybe, but not better. Mine is super efficient, emphasis on super, and designed specifically to avoid causing an overwhelming amount of lag. Anyways, I never heard it mentioned once until I saw people at my farm non-stop. I literally had to move my home and play on my brother's account to avoid all the attention.
Now you're an expert on craftbukkit++'s internals in regards to redstone circuits?
please, you've only spammed the topic thus far with ridiculous crap. you're not helping anything. Keep this topic to well-reasoned complaints and discussion.
prinkey00
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Quote from: cschurz on June 27, 2012, 07:46:51 AMNow you're just putting words in mouth.Quote
Bigger, maybe, but not better. Mine is super efficient, emphasis on super, and designed specifically to avoid causing an overwhelming amount of lag. Anyways, I never heard it mentioned once until I saw people at my farm non-stop. I literally had to move my home and play on my brother's account to avoid all the attention.
Now you're an expert on craftbukkit++'s internals in regards to redstone circuits?
please, you've only spammed the topic thus far with ridiculous crap. you're not helping anything. Keep this topic to well-reasoned complaints and discussion.