Opticraft Community

same project differend question, made a new topic, as this is not just a simple reply
read v1 here
http://www.opticraft.net/index.php/topic,10635.0.html

since of the latest changes in rules, i would like to know the exect reasons for it
as of a couple days ago, if been told by relkeb redstone timers are not allowed anymore  

i asked if its couse of the repeaters, and he answered that was indeed the case
stil there are most likely other creative ways, to build "clocks" without laggy items  
at the time i guessed he was not fully sure and he responded that he preffers not to

is it realy about the clock itself? or are there other reasons involved? like afk farming?
couse if that is thats the case, i fear that i might be told my biggest smp project ever
including hours and hours of work and $$$ will be totaly useless as its fully auto, without an off switch?

some mods already visited me concerning about my farm
and i responded that nick, already told me the server is not suffering from my farm
stil i have my concerns about spending all my hours in this, as there might be other reasons?
can i be assured that this will be 100% legal?  
as im not talking about just a couple hours here... im quiet no life  

please operators allow this because not only kascas spent a lot of money in this, lots of other people including myself invested in this huge project.

the thing i don't understand is the no timer rule. Please explain to us why this is not  allowed.

- a fellow member- eliasdemetriou

Well I'm not an operator, but perhaps redstone timers do indeed have a processing toll on the server.

Lemme explain:

The server has to process EVERYTHING that happens. Every growing tree or plant, every dying leaf from a cut down tree, every destroyed block (including the block check" to make sure the player is allowed to destroy that block which happens prior to a block being destroyed) is all processed by the server, and each and every function requires the processor to make hundreds of calculations, the RAM to perform hundreds (or thousands?) of read/write operations, and even the hard drive to make many IO operations.
So the fact that the server might have to do heavy duty processing to perform the calculations that make a redstone timer work might be why they aren't allowed.

Correct me if I'm wrong on any of the above. Computers, hardware, and code are all my thing. Minecraft servers I am ok at, but I am no expert on them. I can just assume the above based on my logic of how stuff generally works.

Guys? Why are you lazy?
Why dont u make a lever to give power to the whole thing and to open-close it every 5-10 mins.

The point " its fully automated" is just a fraud in my mind.
The whole system works form one point as I know. Change that point and everything are ok.

Quote from: **BT5** on June 10, 2012, 04:42:50 PM
Guys? Why are you lazy?

how about you being less lazy by reading all of the posts, your question would solve itself 
i find your first line very misplaced 

i dont have a magical lever that can activate all my bud switches from a distance
as for now, the only way i could think of is redstone
wich would not make alot of sence, as its a redstone free design

"The whole system works form one point as I know. Change that point and everything are ok."
dont realy understand what you were trying to say with this

@cheif149 ye thats what alot others also think
but that was the point in v1 wich was solved, this is about something else 

My post was addressed to the redstone farms.
Further, my post was addressed to everyone who has auto-farms.

The problem with auto farms is they lag the chunk they're in, and do put a bit of a load on the server.  There aren't that many, which is why it's not noticed server-wide.  If they were allowed you would see everyone building them, and then it would reflect on the server load.

The second thing to note, because of the lag, is that you're going to have neighbors pissed off at you for your farm always running and lagging them out.  Too many complaints to mods and we have no choice but to disable it.  Expecially if the farm is running when you aren't even online.  

Another reason, as you mentioned, is AFK farming.  People have an extremely low opinion of those who do that.

All of that said, I'm staying out of the "legality" of this kind of farm design.

Quote from: **BT5** on June 10, 2012, 04:42:50 PM
Guys? Why are you lazy?
Why dont u make a lever to give power to the whole thing and to open-close it every 5-10 mins.

The point " its fully automated" is just a fraud in my mind.
The whole system works form one point as I know. Change that point and everything are ok.

I'd have to agree...  Personally I think these farms are an eyesore and a waste of space.  They're nothing to be proud of.  All you're doing is replicating the same design over and over on every floor.  Takes no talent, even though the builders of these monstrosities think they've created a proverbial Arc de Triomphe. 

It would be nice if people actually had to properly FARM these things.  Too bad Mojang made stems that'll reproduce pumpkins/melons on demand.  Would have solved this issue all together if they would have just did pumpkins/melons the same as they did wheat.  You know, requiring you replant them after harvesting.

I agree also with your position on my comment. You characterized it very completely.

Btw, do you know what would be a damn killer to the auto-farm mellons?
A limit on mellons/pumpkins/gold of $10,000 value per day.

Then, the survival spirit of the non-millionaire would return for sure!

I got today 80k in less than 2 hours of gaming with sales.. I would be winner of that..

Quote from: **BT5** on June 10, 2012, 07:05:05 PM
I agree also with your position on my comment. You characterized it very completely.

Btw, do you know what would be a damn killer to the auto-farm mellons?
A limit on mellons/pumpkins/gold of $10,000 value per day.

Then, the survival spirit of the non-millionaire would return for sure!

I got today 80k in less than 2 hours of gaming with sales.. I would be winner of that..

Ahh!  So a daily quota on how many pumpkins/melons you could turn in?  Yea that would be awesome, and you're right it would probably return the feel of true SMP to Opticraft.  That said, we'll probably be flamed by the very people we're technically insulting.

I miss the days of old, where players actually cleared out massive areas underground in order to gain materials for their awesomely epic structures above ground.  Go look at the huge structures just outside the main gates over by Nyssa's city.  If you go underground there are massive areas dug out where material was collected for them.  Now that's a truly epic builder!

Quote from: ViperZeroOne on June 10, 2012, 07:43:39 PM
we'll probably be flamed by the very people we're technically insulting.

that would be me   here comes my speech, prepair yourself  

"The problem with auto farms is they lag the chunk they're in"
i dont see the problem of that? its my chunk, with my house, the only that suffers from this is me?

"and do put a bit of a load on the server."
following to nick, there is no proove of that, so your argument is invalid

"If they were allowed you would see everyone building them"
everyone is already allowed, it might be possible they will reconsider wich is the point of my topic

"The second thing to note, because of the lag, is that you're going to have neighbors pissed off at you for your farm always running and lagging them out.  Too many complaints to mods and we have no choice but to disable it.  Expecially if the farm is running when you aren't even online."
i dont realy have active neighbours as far as i know,
no one ever complained, besides the people that think i couse server lagg  
and no my farm is not running if im not online

"Another reason, as you mentioned, is
AFK farming.  People have an extremely low opinion of those who do that."
trying to get clear if this is/will be allowed
i dont afk farm, but i do auto farm while talking in the chat sometimes

"All of that said, I'm staying out of the "legality" of this kind of farm design."
all of this said, im saying "reconsider" of your negative opinion on my farm design

and on farm designing in general, as calling farm designers, "no talent" realy makes me sad


@BT5 take away all ways to earn money, and i will dig my way into $$$ by selling even dirt stacks if needed  
you will never remove me from the nmbr 1 that easy   your not going to solve it this way

sorry for the harsh posts, i need to protect my projects
if you realy want to be negative about it you need to come with good arguments  

I have no intention to remove you from No. 1.
But, since you think a thing like this, on 15/6 I finish with my exams and I will free the whole summer.
I would threat you in the balances if I would like to do so.

Ok, so I don't wanna retype everything you said... So here's my rebuttal to you;

"The problem with auto farms is they lag the chunk they're in"
i dont see the problem of that? its my chunk, with my house, the only that suffers from this is me?

- It's nice of you to think of yourself.  What about the poor player who might be mining through the area below you?  You don't OWN a chunk, you only own the area you cover with your PS.  If I'm mining 40 blocks under your farm, without even knowing your farm is there, and all of a sudden I start to suffer horrid lag for no reason, I'm going to bitch about it.

"and do put a bit of a load on the server."
following to nick, there is no proove of that, so your argument is invalid

- I know Nick said that, but I'm also a network server administrator.  EVERTHING that happens on the server affects the server.  If you break a block, it uses resources.  Sure, they're minuscule but it does happen.  If you lag an entire chunk, the server has to bring that chunk back up to speed.  To say that NOTHING happens is just ignorance.  And no, I'm not calling Nick ignorant, I'm just saying that his comment about there being no VISIBLE proof is being exaggerated by your statement.

"If they were allowed you would see everyone building them"
everyone is already allowed, it might be possible they will reconsider wich is the point of my topic

-  No, people are building MANUALLY ACTIVATED farms.  The farms we're discussing are 100% automated and either run off bud switches or clocks.  This one in question has no way to be shut off.  It will be active 24/7 and run any time someone is close to it, even if the player is offline.  That's horrible, and yes if every farm was like that you would really notice the lag.

"The second thing to note, because of the lag, is that you're going to have neighbors pissed off at you for your farm always running and lagging them out.  Too many complaints to mods and we have no choice but to disable it.  Expecially if the farm is running when you aren't even online."
i dont realy have active neighbours as far as i know,
no one ever complained, besides the people that think i couse server lagg  
and no my farm is not running if im not online

- Well then, your farm isn't one of the ones I'm referring to, is it?

"Another reason, as you mentioned, is
AFK farming.  People have an extremely low opinion of those who do that."
trying to get clear if this is/will be allowed
i dont afk farm, but i do auto farm while talking in the chat sometimes

- As far as I know, AFK farming isn't CURRENTLY against the rules.  I know they disabled chest magnets for a reason though.  My comment was simply that people, myself included, have an EXTREMELY low opinion of those who AFK farm.

"All of that said, I'm staying out of the "legality" of this kind of farm design."
all of this said, im saying "reconsider" of your negative opinion on my farm design
and on farm designing in general, as calling farm designers, "no talent" realy makes me sad

I didn't say these players have no talent.  I said it takes no talent to build an auto-farm.  The designs are all over YouTube, and odds are your design is probably already there too.  All you do is take a very small build and replicate it a million times over.  It's not unique in any way, shape, or form.  The only thing unique is A, the collection area, or B, the (usually ugly) box that gets built around the farm.

sorry for the harsh posts, i need to protect my projects
if you realy want to be negative about it you need to come with good arguments  

I actually think my arguments were pretty valid, from my point of view.  Yours are also valid, from your point of view.  They aren't valid to me because I don't share your opinion.  It's my opinion that if you want an auto farm you should keep it pretty small and curb the greed.  Play the game as it's intended, and if you really want an unlimited block supply go to Classic.

That said, you're definitely free to voice your opinions.  I enjoy a good debate, as long as it doesn't go too far. 

Quote from: **BT5** on June 10, 2012, 08:17:11 PM
I have no intention to remove you from No. 1.
But, since you think a thing like this, on 15/6 I finish with my exams and I will free the whole summer.
I would threat you in the balances if I would like to do so.

lol offtopic much but oh well
i did not ment you personaly removing me from it but myself just lowering ^^
be my guest if you like to challenge me tho

as you wish...keep on going here comes speech v2

Quote from: ViperZeroOne on June 10, 2012, 08:18:23 PM
Ok, so I don't wanna retype everything you said... So here's my rebuttal to you;

- It's nice of you to think of yourself.  What about the poor player who might be mining through the area below you?  You don't OWN a chunk, you only own the area you cover with your PS.  If I'm mining 40 blocks under your farm, without even knowing your farm is there, and all of a sudden I start to suffer horrid lag for no reason, I'm going to bitch about it.
under my farm, is another farm, under that farm is my house, my house is fully protected no digging under it
even if a randomer would get near my farm, it would be an ultra rare occasion 


- I know Nick said that...but
no buts, admin is admin, and im sure no one would care about something minuscule

-  No, people are building MANUALLY ACTIVATED farms.  The farms we're discussing are 100% automated and either run off bud switches or clocks.  This one in question has no way to be shut off.  It will be active 24/7 and run any time someone is close to it, even if the player is offline.  That's horrible, and yes if every farm was like that you would really notice the lag.
alot high /baltops are using farms, alot automatic, its only a matter of time before everyone gets to hear the new rules
and ofcourse every farm would never be like that, as they dont build as big as i do

- Well then, your farm isn't one of the ones I'm referring to, is it?
if your not reffering to my farm, then none of your arguments matter on this topic, do they?

- As far as I know, AFK farming isn't CURRENTLY against the rules.  I know they disabled chest magnets for a reason though.  My comment was simply that people, myself included, have an EXTREMELY low opinion of those who AFK farm.
alright you made your point, wich is your only good argument,
oh wait...thats MY argument i made against myself when starting this topic

I didn't say these players have no talent.  I said it takes no talent to build an auto-farm. 
im mostly busy making a farm, if your saying it takes no talent, you are stil saying i got no talent

It's my opinion that if you want an auto farm you should keep it pretty small and curb the greed.  Play the game as it's intended, and if you really want an unlimited block supply go to Classic.
i indeed preffer to do some maintance in my farms , while you play outside trying to survive
enjoy playing it your way

alrighty speech v2 finished
please dont bother to reply again if your not going to improve/add any argument
again sorry if my posts are harsh, but if your opinion is shared with the admins
then i should start griefing all my projects, as they will all be useless, including all effort making them
il just wait for an admin+ to dicide what the exact rules will be on auto farms/my farms

Nick told me ingame

dont worry, build your farm, be happy 

i gues i can assume i dont have to worry about it anymore
going to continue building again
and im happy:D