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Prismarine
Lando_V:
--- Quote from: xDeeKay on February 09, 2015, 01:12:30 pm ---
--- Quote from: Lando_V on February 09, 2015, 12:55:02 pm ---
--- Quote from: xDeeKay on February 09, 2015, 12:33:29 pm ---
--- Quote from: Lando_V on February 09, 2015, 11:26:58 am ---(PS, is that the same Dinnerbone that screwed us all by promising he would update Bukkit to 1.8 but never did?)
--- End quote ---
No, it's the Dinnerbone that said he would update Bukkit, but was then legally not allowed to due to someone else screwing the community over. Gah.. please learn what actually happened, you described like 10% of the story here.
--- End quote ---
I know exactly what happened, I read all about it. Point is; Dinnerbone should not make promises he cannot keep.
And the other guy you claim screwed the community got screwed himself by Mojang. I completely understand his actions. He's the victim, not the bad guy. He worked his ass off for years for all of us and got screwed by Mojang and also by Dinnerbone.
But lets not get off topic.
--- End quote ---
You're so wrong it hurts. This was in no way Mojang's fault at all. The whole Bukkit staff had a hissy fit because they allegedly had no idea they were working for Mojang after 2 years, and that's apparently Mojang's fault for not telling them individually. The Bukkit community wanted a system where they could be in charge of everything, yet they then turned around and complained that Mojang had been sitting behind the scenes doing nothing for 2 years.
Wolverness, the one we're speaking about, thought that his code he had written voluntarily for Bukkit over many years was all of a sudden in a breach of his copyright because of Mojang's ownership of Bukkit, which has been there since 2012.
I have no sympathy for Wolverness, he's doing what he's doing just because he can, and until he can reveal his motives for this, he will forever be seen as the bad guy.
Go ahead and keep seeing him as the victim, but please then don't be one of those people who can't sleep at night because their beloved server hasn't been able to update to the latest patch because of legal issues.
--- End quote ---
Everyone is trying to get somewhere in this world. His motives are crystal clear. The Bukkit ppl thought they were working on their own future.
You forget this is a money issue. Mojang making TONS of money, and having ppl (Wolverness among many others, who all quit too) working for them without paying them, even without them knowing it. Indeed, I don't blame the guy at all for expecting something in return after they found out. It's not like Mojang couldn't afford it. Instead they said "screw you" and then he decided to stop the project. He always thought his code would be worth a lot but Mojang just tried to confiscate it. Dinnerbone then promised he would finish it which he never did. That's why we have Spigot now instead of Bukkit.
Ppl need to understand that Mojang would never be the company they are now without the work of the Bukkit ppl.
Mojang could have shown the Bukkit guys some god damn financial appreciation!
Instead the Bukkit ppl got screwed and Mojang was sold for 2.5 billion dollars.
It's a damn shame Wolverness wasn't able to sue them for an enormous amount of money.
Nick3306:
--- Quote from: Lando_V on February 09, 2015, 03:37:00 pm ---
--- Quote from: xDeeKay on February 09, 2015, 01:12:30 pm ---
--- Quote from: Lando_V on February 09, 2015, 12:55:02 pm ---
--- Quote from: xDeeKay on February 09, 2015, 12:33:29 pm ---
--- Quote from: Lando_V on February 09, 2015, 11:26:58 am ---(PS, is that the same Dinnerbone that screwed us all by promising he would update Bukkit to 1.8 but never did?)
--- End quote ---
No, it's the Dinnerbone that said he would update Bukkit, but was then legally not allowed to due to someone else screwing the community over. Gah.. please learn what actually happened, you described like 10% of the story here.
--- End quote ---
I know exactly what happened, I read all about it. Point is; Dinnerbone should not make promises he cannot keep.
And the other guy you claim screwed the community got screwed himself by Mojang. I completely understand his actions. He's the victim, not the bad guy. He worked his ass off for years for all of us and got screwed by Mojang and also by Dinnerbone.
But lets not get off topic.
--- End quote ---
You're so wrong it hurts. This was in no way Mojang's fault at all. The whole Bukkit staff had a hissy fit because they allegedly had no idea they were working for Mojang after 2 years, and that's apparently Mojang's fault for not telling them individually. The Bukkit community wanted a system where they could be in charge of everything, yet they then turned around and complained that Mojang had been sitting behind the scenes doing nothing for 2 years.
Wolverness, the one we're speaking about, thought that his code he had written voluntarily for Bukkit over many years was all of a sudden in a breach of his copyright because of Mojang's ownership of Bukkit, which has been there since 2012.
I have no sympathy for Wolverness, he's doing what he's doing just because he can, and until he can reveal his motives for this, he will forever be seen as the bad guy.
Go ahead and keep seeing him as the victim, but please then don't be one of those people who can't sleep at night because their beloved server hasn't been able to update to the latest patch because of legal issues.
--- End quote ---
Everyone is trying to get somewhere in this world. His motives are crystal clear. The Bukkit ppl thought they were working on their own future.
You forget this is a money issue. Mojang making TONS of money, and having ppl (Wolverness among many others, who all quit too) working for them without paying them, even without them knowing it. Indeed, I don't blame the guy at all for expecting something in return after they found out. It's not like Mojang couldn't afford it. Instead they said "screw you" and then he decided to stop the project. He always thought his code would be worth a lot but Mojang just tried to confiscate it. Dinnerbone then promised he would finish it which he never did. That's why we have Spigot now instead of Bukkit.
Ppl need to understand that Mojang would never be the company they are now without the work of the Bukkit ppl.
Mojang could have shown the Bukkit guys some god damn financial appreciation!
Instead the Bukkit ppl got screwed and Mojang was sold for 2.5 billion dollars.
It's a damn shame Wolverness wasn't able to sue them for an enormous amount of money.
--- End quote ---
you realize that even if they weren't working for mojang, they still wouldn't have gotten paid right? the way I see it, he was just a baby that decided after the fact that he should have gotten paid for a project he VOLUNTEERED for Just because mojang made money.
DeeKay:
--- Quote from: Lando_V on February 09, 2015, 03:37:00 pm ---Everyone is trying to get somewhere in this world. His motives are crystal clear. The Bukkit ppl thought they were working on their own future.
--- End quote ---
They were all knowingly voluntarily contributing to a project for free. Hell, even the Moderators of the site resigned with the same excuse. Do you think the Moderators were building their career as Moderators? I don't think so, I think it was just a petty excuse to make people feel sorry for them. What they did was a hobby, and asking money for that at anytime is just wrong.
--- Quote from: Lando_V on February 09, 2015, 03:37:00 pm ---You forget this is a money issue. Mojang making TONS of money, and having ppl (Wolverness among many others, who all quit too) working for them without paying them, even without them knowing it. Indeed, I don't blame the guy at all for expecting something in return after they found out. It's not like Mojang couldn't afford it. Instead they said "screw you" and then he decided to stop the project. He always thought his code would be worth a lot but Mojang just tried to confiscate it.
--- End quote ---
Whether it was a money issue or whether they were just claiming entitlement to money for what they did are 2 different things. Again, this wasn't a money issue because they were all contributing to a project as a hobby. As far as I know, there was nothing in any contract saying they'd ever be paid for doing anything, if there was, there would be a whole new issue here.
As soon as Mojang was thrown into the picture, they all felt that they were somehow entitled to extra resources and rewards. Again you blame Mojang for being the cause of the whole entire staff not knowing about Mojang's ownership over the project, yet I happen to recall EvilSeph being the Bukkit lead at the time, so you don't think maybe he should have been the one to sit them all down and say, "hey guys, Mojang own us now".
You also claim that they somehow "confiscated" his code, again not true at all. Bukkit at that time owned the project after EvilSeph's resignation, that is all. If anything that is EvilSeph's fault for not thinking that one through.
--- Quote from: Lando_V on February 09, 2015, 03:37:00 pm ---Dinnerbone then promised he would finish it which he never did. That's why we have Spigot now instead of Bukkit.
--- End quote ---
Wrong again. Are you sure you did your research? It went something like this:
1. EvilSeph decides for whatever reason (he said DMCA issues, which turned out to be a lie) he wanted to shut down Bukkit.
2. Mojang said hell no (and actually saved the project for the time being)
3. Dinnerbone said he'd update Bukkit
4. Majority, if not all Bukkit staff resign
5. Wolverness filed a DMCA takedown request
6. Bukkit were required to hold the project
7. The Bukkit forums were put under the control of the Curse team
8. md_5 and the Spigot team released 1.8 for Spigot and Bukkit
That is what leaded to the creation of 1.8 Spigot and Bukkit, not Dinnerbone. He literally has nothing to do with that.
--- Quote from: Lando_V on February 09, 2015, 03:37:00 pm ---Ppl need to understand that Mojang would never be the company they are now without the work of the Bukkit ppl.
Mojang could have shown the Bukkit guys some god damn financial appreciation!
Instead the Bukkit ppl got screwed and Mojang was sold for 2.5 billion dollars.
It's a damn shame Wolverness wasn't able to sue them for an enormous amount of money.
--- End quote ---
Pretty much covered all of this nonsense, please refer to the above paragraphs.
Lando_V:
--- Quote from: Nick3306 on February 09, 2015, 03:57:15 pm ---you realize that even if they weren't working for mojang, they still wouldn't have gotten paid right? the way I see it, he was just a baby that decided after the fact that he should have gotten paid for a project he VOLUNTEERED for Just because mojang made money.
--- End quote ---
Indeed, although I wouldn't call him a baby, more something like; extremely naive. Not knowing he was working for Mojang, thinking everything he wrote was his own...
The immature behaviour would come from Mojang, although filthy rich, being unwilling to pay for the important work the Bukkit team did. Mojang truly exploited the situation, not very commendable of them at all.
--- Quote from: xDeeKay on February 09, 2015, 04:13:25 pm ---They were all knowingly voluntarily contributing to a project for free. Hell, even the Moderators of the site resigned with the same excuse. Do you think the Moderators were building their career as Moderators? I don't think so, I think it was just a petty excuse to make people feel sorry for them. What they did was a hobby, and asking money for that at anytime is just wrong.
--- End quote ---
That's just your opinion, I have a different one.
--- Quote from: xDeeKay on February 09, 2015, 04:13:25 pm ---Whether it was a money issue or whether they were just claiming entitlement to money for what they did are 2 different things. Again, this wasn't a money issue because they were all contributing to a project as a hobby. As far as I know, there was nothing in any contract saying they'd ever be paid for doing anything, if there was, there would be a whole new issue here.
--- End quote ---
As long as they didn't know they were working for free for a filthy rich company, yes it was a hobby. The moment they found out though, it was a whole different matter. If I was as stupid as they were, to find out I had been working for a filthy rich company for several years for free, I'd expect some compensation too.
But again, that's just my opinion, you clearly have a different one.
--- Quote from: xDeeKay on February 09, 2015, 04:13:25 pm ---As soon as Mojang was thrown into the picture, they all felt that they were somehow entitled to extra resources and rewards. Again you blame Mojang for being the cause of the whole entire staff not knowing about Mojang's ownership over the project, yet I happen to recall EvilSeph being the Bukkit lead at the time, so you don't think maybe he should have been the one to sit them all down and say, "hey guys, Mojang own us now".
--- End quote ---
I think they were extremely naive but nontheless Mojang could have easily compensated them for their efforts. It would have been a nice gesture to say the least. It would have made such a huge difference.
Of course I blame Mojang for knowingly exploiting these guys.
Yes, they should have known better, but still.
--- Quote from: xDeeKay on February 09, 2015, 04:13:25 pm ---You also claim that they somehow "confiscated" his code, again not true at all. Bukkit at that time owned the project after EvilSeph's resignation, that is all. If anything that is EvilSeph's fault for not thinking that one through.
--- End quote ---
No I didn't say that, I said they tried to do so. They failed. Bukkit was discontinued.
And yes, the Bukkit ppl should have known better.
--- Quote from: xDeeKay on February 09, 2015, 04:13:25 pm ---Wrong again. Are you sure you did your research? It went something like this:
1. EvilSeph decides for whatever reason (he said DMCA issues, which turned out to be a lie) he wanted to shut down Bukkit.
2. Mojang said hell no (and actually saved the project for the time being)
3. Dinnerbone said he'd update Bukkit
4. Majority, if not all Bukkit staff resign
5. Wolverness filed a DMCA takedown request
6. Bukkit were required to hold the project
7. The Bukkit forums were put under the control of the Curse team
8. md_5 and the Spigot team released 1.8 for Spigot and Bukkit
--- End quote ---
You conveniently leave out everything that happened before nr 1.
He had a perfectly good reason to shut it down, knowing that a filthy rich Mojang had exploited him and his mates for years. If Mojang had been a bit more mature and less greedy they would have paid them generously and all would still be well.
--- Quote from: xDeeKay on February 09, 2015, 04:13:25 pm ---That is what leaded to the creation of 1.8 Spigot and Bukkit, not Dinnerbone. He literally has nothing to do with that.
--- End quote ---
Exactly my point, Dinnerbone promised something and he didn't do it.
--- Quote from: xDeeKay on February 09, 2015, 04:13:25 pm ---
--- Quote from: Lando_V on February 09, 2015, 03:37:00 pm ---Ppl need to understand that Mojang would never be the company they are now without the work of the Bukkit ppl.
Mojang could have shown the Bukkit guys some god damn financial appreciation!
Instead the Bukkit ppl got screwed and Mojang was sold for 2.5 billion dollars.
It's a damn shame Wolverness wasn't able to sue them for an enormous amount of money.
--- End quote ---
Pretty much covered all of this nonsense, please refer to the above paragraphs.
--- End quote ---
I have a completely different opinion and might as well call yours nonsense, which I pretty much all covered.
Since this is all a matter of opinion, you say it's all their own fault they didn't know and it was voluntary, I say Mojang has exploited the situation while being filthy rich and could have easily solved the problem by being a little bit less asocial, I think we can agree to disagree.
Nick3306:
How can you not understand this? If bukkit wasnt owned by mojang, they still wouldn't have gotten Paid. That means bukkit was not exploiting them because they wereworking for free before.
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