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Messages - TheWholeLoaf

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31
Server News / Re: Proposed smp changes
« on: March 24, 2016, 08:22:33 pm »
The main reason I am for a server wipe, as I briefly mentioned above, is to pretty much level the playing field again. Adding new worlds doesnít work very well when old players that have vast amounts of resources such as armor, weapons, pearls for travel, and food can quickly run through the worlds, claim their lands, usually larger than they need, and quickly develop a build while newer players have to take their time to get settled in. The most recent case is the new end world. I would be willing to bet every castle was raided, claimed or deconstructed for materials within the first day or two.
This is why I believe the server should be wiped and the worlds put up for downloads. A fresh start would be a nice chance of pace.
So you have a problem with the differences in wealth. Contrary to real life where wealth is obtained over the backs of others, in Minecraft everyone could be equally wealthy. All one has to do is put some effort into it.
If there would be a wipe, how long do you think it would take before there would be large differences again? I'd say just a day or two. That makes the "wipe to establish a level playing field"-argument void.
Your example of the so called End Cities is false too. The End has no border, it has an unlimited amount of End Cities. If players have raided the ones closest to the portal, you just have to travel a bit further to find untouched End Cities.

A wipe is a short term solution that would only make a small group of players "happy" for a short period of time. It would be devastating for the rest of the players and for the server as a whole.

The only reason for a wipe would be that the server cannot handle our worlds. In that case we have a much bigger problem than anyone has realised so far.

but the people that are saying it are saying it for themselves, not others
Them saying they already reached their endgame is one thing. I doubt anyone has a problem with them saying that. But asking for a wipe is something completely different.
A wipe would not only mean a wipe for themselves, but also for others.
Let them find a solution for themselves, not one that is a disaster for others.

I understand very well that some players already have reached their limit in MC, their endgame. But does that mean they should ruÔn it for others by asking the server to be wiped? They can simply start over for themselves. Just toss your crap into lava.
Does the fact that others are wealthier influence players that are making a new start? It doesn't have to at all. There is plenty of unused land, there is plenty of unmined area (eg below the sea) and there are plenty of ways to get good stuff (eg the new end world). If players aren't lazy they shouldn't have any problem developing themselves!


My argument to wipe the server to level the playing field is not a void point. I am mainly speaking of the newer players vs older players, where as the older players have had more time to play, the newer players would not be able to ever catch up in terms of wealth. And when I say wealth, I am in no means only referring to money, but supplies in general.

You say that if a server wipe were to happen, the division of wealth would be pretty noticeable within the first few days. I disagree, mainly because the players that have overwhelming supplies will no longer have these, there will be no easy way to get back to where they once were. I am also in favor of the economic changes, to get rid of money all together and make the only opportunity to get resources that players have is to either get it themselves or work with others in order to get it. If farms still arise after that, I am perfectly fine with it, but players will not have such things as the market to help them get there, things like the price of melons helping them get all the money they would ever need to help support their later farms.

You are correct in calling me out on end cities, I was not aware that the end was now infinite, however, I assume there is still a boarder on it as there is with the main worlds and nether worlds, so there is still a finite supply of these cities.


"A wipe is a short term solution that would only make a small group of players "happy" for a short period of time. It would be devastating for the rest of the players and for the server as a whole."
How is adding new worlds also not a sort term solution? As I have said before, I can't see this going on forever, at some point, the worlds will have to go, but certainly not be erased. As for you saying that it would make a "small group of players "happy"" and a wipe being devastating to the rest of the players, I believe there are currently more votes yes than no in the poll, and were so even before the wipe was off the table.


"I understand very well that some players already have reached their limit in MC, their endgame. But does that mean they should ruÔn it for others by asking the server to be wiped? They can simply start over for themselves. Just toss your crap into lava."
I suppose you could say that denying a server wipe would also ruin the game for the players that are for it. Obviously the concept of starting over on your own has been brought up before, even before this discussion occurred, yet people are still in favor of a wipe.

At this point, there's two majorities, ones for a wipe and ones against it. One side is most likely going to lose, I can't see any middle ground other that what has been posted which hasn't received much attention other than "No". Perhaps another way to go about this is to stop trying to defend our own sides and keep pitching ideas that encompass both out comes. I have said I can't see any way that can happen, and you can say that too, but we will never find out unless we focus on those particular discussions rather then our individual sides.


The one I've failed to put there in the 'against' column however is the one that I believe in - it goes against what Opticraft was always meant to be like.

...

They should be kept on the principal that that's what opticraft's about.

...

Penguin is against world wipes because it goes against the theme of opticraft
I'm going to have to kindly disagree with these points you make. I don't think a theme was ever established, maybe in your eyes, but not as a whole. The the only theme I can see Opticraft having adopted is being set too much in stone to have a fresh start. We've come accustomed to simply adding a new world every time things get messy, and it's become an unfortunate knee-jerk reaction that's caused more problems than it solved. Instead of 1 world lasting one year, we've added more and more worlds which meant more and more segregation of our players. This should also answer your question about adding worlds.

I also have to disagree with this. To me, Opticraft has always been about change, some embraced it and others hated it. I wasn't really around for this, but the shift from classic to smp, some players hated it, others from classic were all for it. There are also things changes from the additions and reductions to the market, to trying new things like the pvp system, the creative server, and now Optiquest, to the changes in player counts, to the changes in people themselves, leaving and joining, gaining rank and becoming staff. Each new person also has need ideas and each new staff member has new ways of doing things and ideas to contribute. The only thing that doesn't change on Opticraft is what we do with our worlds which I have said many times already, can not go on. At some point, worlds will have to be taken down, but certainly not erased, they will still exist in some fashion.

32
Server News / Re: Proposed smp changes
« on: March 24, 2016, 02:57:46 am »
Your two points are:

1. There isn't enough open land. 
2. We should have a level playing field.

Your first point is simply not true.  Even the cluttered and ancient old guest world there is plenty of available space.  Look at the right most corner on the overviewer map.  Lots of places to build.  Plenty more on the other maps. 

Your second point just doesn't make sense to me.  Minecraft isn't a competition.  If your goal is to have more chests full of more blocks than the next guy, then maybe this isn't the right game for you.  How does my city, which I've worked on for over 3 years, dampen your enjoyment of the game?  Or make anything you build less impressive?

I suppose I didn't make my point clearly enough, but I'm unsure of how to put it any other way. You in particular don't contribute to much of the problems I've brought up in my point, your city is in it's own area and, as you said, it is really your only build. But the average player, especially when starting off, makes several small builds, perhaps relocates several times to work on new builds. Also, this function is only available to operators + but if you go into spectator mode, allowing you to phase through blocks, and travel underground, those areas are full of players mines and looted resources. So they aren't untouched just because they don't have surface builds. You are correct in stating that one of my concerns is availability of land, but that is not at all limited to surface builds.

It certainly has nothing to do with inadequacy or impressiveness of builds.

33
Server News / Re: Proposed smp changes
« on: March 24, 2016, 02:38:50 am »
There really hasnít been anything said about why we want a server wipe except for the vague comments of starting over. In a multiplayer minecraft server, the idea should be that you can do whatever you want to do, but from the very start, with how things are set up, that isnít the case. The accumulation of every players work effects new players, they canít really go out into the wilderness without seeing someone elseís build or running into someone else pre-dug mine. This is especially the case in the old worlds where you canít throw a stone and not hit a block that someone didnít edit. This is mostly because of our popularity back in 2012 when we had 100+ people on at a time. Our method of adding worlds worked for a temporary solution, however, since people still had everything they had accumulated, it was that much easier to harvest everything from a new world and populate the next. I donít see this method of adding worlds continuously going on forever, at some point, old worlds will have to go. If we add two new worlds like we usually do, a new guest and a new member, I feel itís kind of ridiculous to have two worlds that the majority of people play on, and four worlds that a very small minority use. Iím not trying to say that the minority isnít important, but change does happen, you can either accept it and move with it, or reject it and be left behind.

Regarding a reset. It is understandable that some people have reached their limit in Minecraft and want to start over. It is also very understandable that others can go far beyond that limit and want to keep going. I don't see why those that have reached their limit cannot start over just by themselves. Instead they want to reset the server, not only for themselves but also for those that do not need/want a reset at all.

As stated above, the population of the world prevents a true restart for a player. Even if a new world is added, they may have about a day or two to enjoy the world before people start making rediculously large mine tunnels, claiming land and gathering all the resources. Yes that is what you are supposed to do in minecraft, but as stated above, the amount of resources the average player has helps them use up the new worlds very quickly.

I understand that certain areas, like the old guest world, don't look terribly nice, with lots of incongruous old builds packed close together.  But judging from the creative server, that's just how people like to build.  Go figure.  What I don't understand however is the plea from some that playing becomes boring since they have their builds around.  What's stopping you from just destroying it all and giving away all your items?  Or heading off to some empty spot on the map (of which there are many), erasing all your /homes, and starting over?  I don't see why you'd want to forcibly erase everyone else's builds to avoid having to start over on your own.  Several people over the years have given away all their money and items and started over.  Why don't you? 

It is incorrect to compare the building style on creative to the building style on a survival server. Sorry, but they are two very different things. Mostly, people want their own area to develop, and typically only share it with friends, if anyone. Just because the old worlds are filled with builds that are closed together does not mean that that is what players prefer. That really means that the world is far passed done with and players want new space to build. That is why it looks like such trash for the most part, players ran out of room and began clustering builds, then they would leave them and someone would come along and grief it because everything is so available due to proximity.
The main reason I am for a server wipe, as I briefly mentioned above, is to pretty much level the playing field again. Adding new worlds doesnít work very well when old players that have vast amounts of resources such as armor, weapons, pearls for travel, and food can quickly run through the worlds, claim their lands, usually larger than they need, and quickly develop a build while newer players have to take their time to get settled in. The most recent case is the new end world. I would be willing to bet every castle was raided, claimed or deconstructed for materials within the first day or two.
This is why I believe the server should be wiped and the worlds put up for downloads. A fresh start would be a nice chance of pace. I am also willing to discuss something along the lines of players builds being moved or a handful of items being brought over, though as I stated in my previous post, this would need quite a bit of thought as to how it can be done easily and fairly.

I encourage everyone that has voted for a server wipe to go into more detail as to why they would like this.

And please, if you are against wiping the server, please stop using the argument that it is incorrect when someone says that "it's not fun anymore when you reach the end game" or "I've already done everything, so the game is now boring". It is not incorrect to say that, nor is it completely true, but the people that are saying it are saying it for themselves, not others. When you disagree with that, you are stating that it is incorrect for everyone. That is not a valid argument. Please still feel free to state why you still have fun doing what you do though, that is not what I am putting down.

34
Server News / Re: Proposed smp changes
« on: March 23, 2016, 11:30:45 pm »

Maybe as a compromise some of the builds on the server could be moved to the new map. Criteria for that could be something like: 1-Player who owns the build must still be active 2-Must be at least X by X by X large 3- Must have previously obtained a project/city protection.

Probably could be improved a bit, but that's just and idea of something that might work

I have thought about this idea several times in the past, but I believe it would be far too complicated and have too many issues to be done successfully. It would take a vast amount of time for the few upper staff to get this done, either by WEing over the builds or using mceidt. Also, not every build works well when its taken out of the context of the landscape it was built into, we cant just take a build that was in the side of a mountain and try to fit it perfectly into a new world. Also, we would have to give a time slot for people to submit an application of shorts for something like this, over a long period of time so that our newer players that have settled in have a chance to see whats going to happen and react, otherwise, there will be a large amount of people who never got the chance to request their build moved.

The prospect of only moving builds that have been granted project protection only helps out our older players, who have had many years of game play with their builds where as the newer members would get nothing of the sorts. I feel most older members would continue playing because they love the community while the newer players don't quite know the community yet and might need some more incentive.

Something I thought that could possibly replace this idea, is that everyone can move one inventory full of stuff over to the new world. This would give the newer players that just started the chance to continue on what they have done, and give players the chance to take some of their builds down and recreate them. This would of course mean that they would not be available in the downloadable worlds however.
Just a thought to help out the newer members if there is a server wipe.

I'm wondering why a server wipe was taken off the table so early into the debate. As with most things, there's a substantial divide between opinions on this one matter, but I believe that offering the worlds as downloads is a pretty good middle ground.

Perhaps we shouldn't cross out the idea of a server wipe just yet due to further support.

I support this ^_^

I also support this.

35
General Discussion / Re: Possible Event?
« on: March 21, 2016, 10:42:01 pm »
I'm up for it, but if we do a bracket then there's most likely going to be people signed up that then don't make it. So it'd need to be done in a way to allow that.

36
Server News / Re: Proposed smp changes
« on: March 19, 2016, 06:19:34 pm »
I agree with everything in the original post, as well as some other ideas that people have had. There should be a big push on advertising, but that has always been brought up and nothing ever done about it. It is entirely Optical's choice as well. Another good idea I've read was from penguin, to link voting to the allotted land you can protect. Voting should be linked to more things rather than item rewards. DK's voting points system where you can choose what to spend your points on is an interesting concept, and again, doesn't have to be limited to just buying items.

I'd like to see a resource world implemented. There are quite a few advantages to this and I cant really think of any disadvantages other than the majority of the mining wont be done in the main worlds. The resource world would allow the main worlds to look much nicer as they are for building and exploring only. The resource world would also regenerate regularly but also randomize so that players can not memorize where the resources are located. The goal of this is to not end up with worlds like old guest further down the road.

I'd also like to see farms regulated much more.

37
Server News / Re: Proposed smp changes
« on: March 18, 2016, 10:50:06 pm »

On a different note, I'm totally opposed to all these changes without two things:
1. I still think bungee should be the only priority of the server
2. A revised statement about OptiQuest (Don't try to work on them simultaneously...)

Optiquest will be an on going project that wont end any time soon, so they will probably be worked on at the same time. There will be a slow period after release, but it will still be worked  on.

38
Support/Ban Appeals / Kicked or Banned on discord? Look Here.
« on: February 08, 2016, 05:47:06 pm »
If you have been kick or banned on our discord server, you may use this link to rejoin. Your ban will be lifted when the person that banned you said in their message, however, there is no set time. Please be patient if they said 1 day and you aren't unbanned exactly 24 hours later.

http://www.opticraft.net/discord

39
Support / Kicked or Banned from our discord? Look Here.
« on: February 08, 2016, 05:46:30 pm »
If you have been kick or banned on our discord server, you may use this link to rejoin. Your ban will be lifted when the person that banned you said in their message, however, there is no set time. Please be patient if they said 1 day and you aren't unbanned exactly 24 hours later.

http://www.opticraft.net/discord

40
Rejected / Re: Bauernhof City Protection Application
« on: January 31, 2016, 04:00:34 am »
The progress on this build is good so far, however, there is quite a bit of empty space, and the farm lands don't help toward protection. The detail in what you have now is good, but strive for some larger, more complex builds as well. A series of similar houses will not meet the standards.

Unfortunately, rejected.

41
Forum Games / Re: The Prediction Game!
« on: January 19, 2016, 06:13:09 am »
Indeed, I do watch anime. Tho its getting harder to find ones I like.

I predict the next person loves to read.

42
Rejected / Re: Twinsands project protection app
« on: January 17, 2016, 07:26:25 pm »
It seems like there has been a lot of work done on this project and quite a lot of help from others, however, the project is lacking a few things needed to qualify for project protection.
The area is quite large but it only has a few structures on it, a very small percentage of which are furnished and completed. The circular island is basically just a compilation of different farms.
Over all the quality in organization and detailed work along with the fact that it is unfinished hurts its chances of getting protection.

Things that would help would be to organize the scattered builds on the sandstone island and utilize the empty space on and under the island. The other island could use more structure and detailed work to catch the eye, something that would give it more substance than just farms.

Unfortunately for now, rejected.

43
Rejected / Re: Protection Cave of Drachen
« on: January 16, 2016, 08:48:17 pm »
Unfortunately, rejected.

Area is too small to require protection and the contents of the area are minor. Adding structures to the project to give it substance would be a good start toward getting protection.

44
Ban Appeals / Re: ban appeal
« on: January 12, 2016, 12:14:06 am »
forums.optic.tv does not lead to this website. You were banned on the OpticCraft server, not this one. We do not have factions.

45
Server News / Re: Join us on Discord!
« on: December 30, 2015, 06:08:01 am »
This is awesome, I love how easy it is to use and access. Nice idea.

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