I'll keep an eye on you all. Right now I have been testing the 1.9.2 pre-release, which means there are very few if any servers I can join.

TurtleMan918 that was fine, though I'm more accustomed to seeing "et cum spiritu tuo."

Also Optic I've "spoken" with a couple of plugin Devs, there's one in particular you might want to look at called AcceptRules that may help with a little griefing. It's basically a plugin which makes it to where somebody must use /rules, then accept them. Until they do they can be placed in a bedrock spawnjail. It's completely automated as once they accept you can have it TP them out of the jail. That way nobody can ever claim "I didn't know."

Yar I totally look forward to being your "neighbor". I like a little buffer between my own building and mines and my closest neighbors but I think my giant tree would look good next to your designs, and i know I wouldn't have to worry about either of us griefing the other.

So to make it more simple...

With the current system you are suggesting. (Ressidence)

A : Will i be able to setup any protection as i want it ?

B : Will i be able to make it go to the bedrock ?

C : Will i be able to buy mutilble 96x96x(x) areas ?

All my fear was about, was the server turning into monopoly, and we all of the sudden see ppl hording land, without it being built on.. (Some ppl would see this a goal in the game, even if it not) This is not a problem the first few months, but all i was scared about, was that in a few monts time, there would not be space for any new players.. ( I belive most of us remeber the space reservation issuses in classic)

Im only posting for the good of the server, if im wrong, dont hate me for it..

 Muhnator

Yes, within the parameters Optic sets.
Yes, as well as sky/ceiling provided you have the money to pay for it.
Perhaps, Optic sets how many areas each rank can own as well as size of the area.

The space issue happens on every server if it's a good server. You usually have more players than land to go around for them. But you typically wont see this for a LONG time, unless the server gets REALLY popular.

I'd kind of like to see new or more death messages. These are some of my favorite in game events.

Just for an example usage here is the file I created for servers I've been staff on.
#This file contains custom messages for death events.
#You can specify as many messages as you want (within reason) for each death type.
#Just be sure each message is on a new line under the appropriate label.
#When a player dies, a random message from the appropriate label is chosen.
#Accepted variables:
# - %d holds the name of the dead player.
# - %a holds the name of the attacking entity (player or monster) for PVP and Monster deaths.
# - %i holds the name of the attacking player's current item for PVP deaths.
# - %w holds the world the death occurred in
#Custom item names may be defined in the 'heroicdeath.items' file.
:Drown
%d drowned
%d sleeps with the fishes
%d took a long walk off a short pier
%d forgot to breath
%d is shark bait
:Cactus
%d died to a cactus
%d poked a cactus, but the cactus poked back
:Fire
%d burned to death
%d forgot how to stop, drop and roll
%d couldn't put out the fire
%d is a firestarter, twisted firestarter
%d was immolated
%d played with matches and got burned
%d fell into a burning ring of fire
:Explosion
%d apparently has an explosive personality
%d exploded
%d opened jokey smurf's present
:Creeper
%d was creeper bombed
%d hugged a creeper
:Fall
%d fell to their death
%d took a leap of faith
%d left a small crater
%d faceplanted the ground
%d fell victim to gravity
IsaacNewton killed %d weilding gravity
%d didn't bounce
%d tried to basejump with no parachute
%d tested gravity
%d went bungee jumping with no cord
:PVP
%a killed %d wielding %i
%d got schooled by %a's %i
%d fought %a but %a won
:Void
%d fell into the Gap
:Monsters
%d was killed by an angry %a
%d got schooled by an angry %a
%d tried to molest a %a
:Lava
%d was killed by lava
%d became obsidian
%d took a bath in a lake of fire
%d got melted
%d was incinerated
%d tried to swim in lava
%d likes to play in magma
:Other
%d died from unknown causes
%d was killed by Herobrine
%d took a dirtnap
%d was slain
%d was eviscerated
%d was murdered
%d's face was torn off
%d was destroyed
%d's skull was crushed
%d got massacred
%d got impaled
%d was torn in half
%d was decapatated
%d was a paradox to nature
%d fought the law but the law won
:Suffocation
%d suffocated
%d took a deep breath of dirt
%d was buried alive
:Dispenser
%d did not need a dispenser there.
%d got shot by a dispenser.
:Lightning
%d got electrocuted.
%d has an electrifying personality.
%d made a suitable ground.
%d flew a kite in a thunderstorm
:Suicide
%d committed suicide.
%d decided to end it all.
%d decided %w was too cruel a place to live
:Starvation
%d died of starvation.
%d forgot to eat.



I understand you concerns and everybody else's with an economy, It just doesn't make that big of a deal, at least not what everybody is getting at. Heck you're even free to completely ignore the economy if you like even if it's implemented.

Protection, economy based, non economy based, either way doesn't bother me. I prefer a staff free method but hey just as long as there is some type of protection.

+1 on the thread muh.

Lemme get this straight. Dont u know that ops can spawn items.based on ur shop system, whenever someone's buy a thing eg diamond, an item will be spawned hence increasing the supply, when the supply increase the value of diamond will fall(this Is economics).
Secondly zoning out an area will turn the server into like a classic server, where we display our builds. DUDE this is a SURVIAVAL game not a "make the best building game" we are supposed to survive. I feel that the protection available is sufficient for us to survive, and if u say about people intruding ur mines, if u have cleared of all the visible ores no one would even bother exploring your mine.
Lastly if u say that having a standard price for things eg warps are not good, then y is opticalza still receiving donations from his classic things?havIng a warp is a convinence ESP for those people who are willing to fork out the money.we want this server to be a HUGE server, and if we give a clear distinction between those who donated and those who have not, people will feel insulted and discriminated( eg donators can light fire) so as I said warps dose not change the playing field it is just a convience for ppl who are willing to donate to the server.

I'm going to do my best here Doom, no offense but I can't always understand your meaning.
I'm not sure where you got this shop idea from but no, nobody spawns anything. People fill a chest with one type of item that they have acquired themselves through whatever means. The biggest abuse of this I have seen is immature staff spawning the things they fill their chest with. The solution to that problem was to remove the player from staff. You are correct though if the supply does increase by magical means the demand does fall, that is economics, so you have to beat it into staff's head to NOT SPAWN ITEMS. There's no point in survival, it's not what survival is about if they want to do that they need to go play creative. Survival is about rewards for hard work, skill, and talent.

You are incorrect about your ideals of survival, well I suppose an opinion is always subjective, but i urge you to visit other servers and have a peek. At it's heart Minecraft is a creativity sandbox, SMP like Single Player Mode, is first and foremost about doing what you can, with what you can get with an added element of danger involved. (See: "Woohoo check out my awesome castle I hand built with stuff I dig up single handedly... OH NO A CREEPER! *BOOM* Aww man...")

Doom, why is that ability and distinction a bad thing? As a Reverend it is my firm opinion that in this day and age people are getting too used to being handed things and need a severe reality check because life isn't like that. Why so adamant against protection? Let's look at this in parallel with a real life example. Say you buy a farm, it's your land, your property you bought it. Through hard work and blood sweat and tears you tracked down this plot of land and settled it. Over the course of time you improved it, made it better, added a well, built a house, planted an orchard. Later you discover there's oil on your property. Should some other guy be able to burrow under your farm through the strata and take your oil? I mean after all you just bought the land you saw on the top. Should people be allowed to come and camp in your fields whenever they want? Wouldn't you put up at least a fence on your boarders, if only to keep your livestock from escaping?

As far as donations, I'm not saying the current set-up is bad. I'm just saying when people are given a choice you'd be surprised at how many will opt to choose.

Zoning itself is not that bad of an idea, i can just see every guest wanting a zone and the map being filled with reserved spots.

Yes but Nick, if you saw, I mentioned earlier players don't have to request an op or any other staff to set up this type of protection, they do it them self. If you are called about it it will only be because they don't understand how to do it, not because they need you to do it for them.
You see the map filled with reserved spots now, they have houses on top of them. Same thing, and as I mentioned the zones are set size wise by the Host.

Lemme make it simpler. If someone use prem money to buy a diamond where will the diamond come from? It's unlikely optical will go mine a diamond and give it to that guy. So I guess the plugin will "create" the diamond. So hence the total amount of diamond in total will increase and hence reduce the value of diamond.
And secondly do u reserve space in a survival server?-.- what happens if we go exploring and it becomes dark. The area is reserved and we can't make a bunker to get through the night. I mean seriously do u reserve space in single player survival mode? If u don't and u can survive y do u need to reserve in smp? If u are worried about griefers than what are operators for? As I see nick is doing a great job. So I feel there's no need to reserve space.

The diamond comes from a chest in the seller's home. It may be unlikely optical would go mine a diamond just to give it away, but he might sell any extra ones he dug up. The plugin creates nothing except a means for players to trade items for currency, and vice versa.

Yes I do reserve space in a survival server, it's called my home/base. it's usually a large building or a building with a fence around the surrounding land. If the protected area isn't marked via fence the guy who owns it either just set it up, or is a jerk. And yes I do reserve space in a single player, again it's called my home/base. I return to it regularly, I have a bed there, my storage, it's well lit, and a safe place to spend the nights.

Operators are not there only to prevent griefing, in my experience they are there to resolve any issues that arise on the server. Nick is doing a great job, but he's not there 24/7 either, this will make Nick's job easier.

I totally agree.

 Im aware that this is a smp server, but come on, how hard is it to build a shed and survive mobs and lava ? game beaten in 5 min....

 Opti has allready taken the steps towards protection, since i do belive he has alot of focus on building. Creepers dont blow up things, enderman dosent move blocks around.. Protection is the next step, and we need it.  (Nick are you worried of not having anything to do as op ?, cuz its the only motivation i can spot behind your lack of intrest for protection)

 All i can say is from a builders perspective, no protection sucks.. I love to make big "playgrounds" for ppl to have fun in, but atm id rather hide since getting my stuff griefed drives me nuts.

 Im a huge fan of opticraft, i have a great deal of respect for opti,and most the staff, but to be honest. If protection isnt implemented at some point, this just isnt the server for me.

The only hard thing to do in beta is building. I honestly cant see any challenge in surviving on its own. I dont want to play creative, cuz this again is way to easy. "surviving" while gathering mats for mega structures, thats fun.

 Muhnator

We're agreed on the SMP experience. Building with danger added and limited resources is not just fun it's super fun. On a server without an economy what do I do when I run out of diamond? On a server with an economy I see if anybody has extra they want to sell benefiting us both in our adventures in building. In my opinion this game is a simulation of what I must have been like to settle the United States around 1776.

I can see your point, and it is valid.
I have joint questions for you.
1. If nothing bad is happening anymore, what is the problem?
2. Think about void to bedrock protection. Imagine you are mining, not griefing. You mine, and mine. No diamonds (I know this is not valid for you, as you have 100s) but finally you come across one. You mine it. You can't, its protected, as it is 70 layers under some protected place. How would you feel?

1. Even if nothing bad is happening now what happens when the server goes public and a flood of people join? A reactive stance is a sure way to loose any battle, being proactive and trying to prepare for an emergency is usually a better solution.
2. Whenever this happened to me on multiple servers I thought to myself "Aww dang I hit somebode Else's land, that diamond is theirs lucky dog... I should build a wall here so they know they have a neighbor and mine in a different direction." Then i usually went to the surface to check out their house.

I have no idea what u all r talking abt. But my main thing is that if u want to build super builds and are lazy to search for admin when it gets griefed. U should built on classic instead.as this is not a building server, it's a survival server :3

That is counterpoint to the design of the game actually, and why waste the time to bother an admin when I can protect it myself if given the proper tools. If i have to call somebody for protection it's a waste of my time and the staff member's time. Time i could better spend building and mining, and time he can better spend doing the same or enriching the community.

Reserving a area is like zoning out the spawn. Many players already find it annoying to be able to see iron ore in the spawn and yet not able to mine it. So if a few muhnator sized mines and build is zoned, it will take a day of walking before getting out of the spawn. And it will seem like u own majority of the land in opticraft which = to alot of ores stones etc. Just because of ur building on land.

The players that find spawn protection and such annoying are the kind that do not respect public and private property, and you do not want them on the server anyway, trust me, they are a constant source of both community drama and griefing. Muh's mine might be on the large side but that doesn't mean the settings optical put in place would allow him to claim the entire space he has now. I regularly on a new server walk out from spawn more than one day anyway to find a nice secluded spot to avoid griefing anyway, those that do not are either bold, staff, or lazy. When buying a home later in life don't you plan on looking around for the perfect place?

Thank your Devil, Muhn.

Now, about protections.

I am all for protections - within reason.
a 256x256x128 protection (assuming Z is the height axis), is too large in my opinion. The way i envision them being acquired and used is such that you will have to purchase them from a shop using a currency. This will take some time to earn, and you'll get a smaller area. Something like 96x96x128 or 64x64x128. You can then place multiple blocks to protect your area side by side. The key here is that it will be hard to get enough $$ to purchase these protection blocks, such that only those who have been building for some time can afford them. I would also advise that they only get used outside the spawn area, but i am unsure on how that could be enforced.

Anyhow - this is a while off. We first need the new map, an economy/shop system in place, and some other backend things - the new dedicated server, vote rewards, donation rewards and such, before protections will be a major priority.

No worries Optical it's what I do. Knowledge should be freely available.

Size it how you like Optical, the system is completely flexible, but I implore you keep the sky to bedrock setting. My suggestion is hop in game and path out a footprint, when you feel it's of the appropriate size for a protected base/home use that as your setting, and keep in mind each rank can have it's own setting.
You are correct sir, it does take a while to protect everything using the currency, but that's part of the fun, playing buying and selling until your home is protected, also a reason why the 5% isn't as bad as you think it is. Money goes fast with the active players, and you'll find the more active and helpful ones never abuse the money and are some of the biggest and best community players. you can also buy and sell(or give away) these protected homes.
As far as outside spawn only, that's simple as host you have unlimited permissions. Protect spawn for free as far as placing and destroying with whatever permissions you desire, then walk away after you get it set. it won't effect your normal playing at all.
I think protections should be a big priority before the server goes public, when you get a flow of new players you'll find a lot of griefing. That won't settle down for a while. Also for the record don't expect me to vote I dislike vote systems as being a tech I do not trust websites I do not know.

Just asking is there a need to zone till bedrock? I mean some ppl build alot of hOuses and only have one mine, so if it's only the house won't it be better to just zone of lesser, as in not to bed rock? I hope this zoning will implement only after 1.9 comes out。
And finally a qns for muh, did ur builds in classic get zoned to prevent greif?and FYI I use /home iam4ever and it was HER who ask me build my damn house beside hers. I wasn't even thinking of building so damn far away in the first place, all my builds are near the spawn, and as far as I know only the farms got griefed none of my other builds have been. So if u don't want to get grief, ask nick to fly to a super far area and then set ur home there. And do u think u are so popular that every guest will teleport to your home?

Oh yes there is absolutely a need to zone to bedrock. I have built extensive homes with mines and underground structures, as well as biodomes underwater(check out my treefarm, then realize i also build mob grinders, animal spawns, wheat and sugar, as well as cactus and mushroom farms, the only way I can do this is by digging deep. I've had some of these structures tunneled into and griefed before. Just because you dig into somebody's wheat field and all the wheat is ripe does not mean it is yours for the taking... :-( I put a lot of hard work and effort into building that, which i sell to the community as cakes and bread and wheat and seeds for a reasonable price. And I use those profits to protect my lands and buy iron which I may have completely mined out of my own mines.

I'm not exactly sure about zoning to bedrock.On one side people make great mines that should protected, but on the other side, zoning to bedrock is basically reserving blocks that you didnt make. I just dont think that just because u made a house above ground, you are entitled to all the ores below it. You are basically reserving resources for yourself.

This goes back to the real life real estate thing. Did you make any of the soil or under the topsoil on your own house? But you still own it right? What's the difference between there and in game? I'm not an unreasonable guy when it comes to my homes in minecraft. When I'm online I invite people over, I teach them things, I farm items, I build decent structures, and I sell surplus things at reasonable prices. but when I'm not playing i like to know my lands are safe, from the bedrock (where the grinders usually are) to the sky (usually an observation deck).

Man that's a huge post, but you guys set this topic on fire today while I was gone. LOL

I'll do my best to address each person's criticisms of the system one at a time.

Having too many ranks complicate things.

You are correct having too many ranks can complicate things but no more so than having too many staff. Or worse staff who want to do their own thing not inline with the host or dev's ideas for the server. How does one decide how many ranks are too many? Guest, Registered, Regular, Trusted member, Donator, Guide, Admin, and Owner doesn't seem like to many to me. Each has a purpose, each is recognized for their own contributions, each has a growing level of responsibility. You can always trim away some ranks by removing say trusted and donator but it is my experience on multiple servers that not all staff should have the ability to do all things.

Plus will we still get interest if we dc halfway? Ppl dc very often.

Nope, on for the whole 30 minutes or no interest, if set to 15 min then must be on for the whole 15 or no interest. If people have connection drops that prevent them from being connected for more than 30 minutes at a time it's suggested they fix the issue with their connection as this is not common in a reliable internet connection. If they have a timer or something they can let staff know and the  time and percent of interest earned can be adjusted. I only posted what worked for my server.

I also suggested having a warp donation program.

Having set amounts for donations tends to discourage people from donating. Having an open system where they choose and get perks for even donating an amount as low as $5 encourages it heavily. I've seen this in action. With my system they get nothing godly but don't get completely ignored for only having $5 to spare either.

And abt the shop it really makes things complicated can't we just use gold ingots to trade instead of the $ thingy.....the shop system can be made like the runescape grand exchange, where we can buy materials only if someone else is selling it, so as to prevent people from flooding the server with a certain item eg diamond, and reduce the value of diamond. I say this as people can donate then use the money to buy alot of diamonds and than start distributing for free, and then hard working miners will realize that their diamonds are worthless now.

What you are talking about is a barter system. This is how an economy starts in a primitive culture. There are a few problems with it though which are as follows.
1. If a player doesn't have anything in which the trader wants no deal can be made and a player who desperately needs the materials goes away empty handed.
2. If you can only trade when people are online, what happens to the players who are on when very few others are? They walk away with nothing.

I understand your concerns, but what you are saying is actually not entirely possible in a free market economy. Primarily because diamonds are only ever present on a server in finite amounts. Secondly is if Player1 does try to low ball the economy a savvy business minded Player2 can go buy up Player1's reserves and resell for a significant profit Player1 is foolish. Basics of economics, buy low sell high.

I have no idea what you are talking about regarding "I say this as people can donate then use the money to buy alot of diamonds and than start distributing for free" Where did they get all this money, or who is selling diamonds so cheaply? Where did all the diamonds come from? Sounds like a high ranking staff member might need to investigate and maybe remove the source.

There should't be too many ranks, as it complicates things, and possibly discrimination may occur...

LOL you've said that about 3 times in the same post, but I am curious where you think this discrimination would come from. As staff on many games and servers before I've always seen the best adopt a Zero tolerance policy on discrimination.

Nice effort for making a long post after joining opticraft forum for 4 days lol xP, how did u come to know about it?

I'm not sure if that was meant in an offensive manner or not, but I will assume not. The post was made at the request of another player who told me optic would greatly value the experience and the feedback it provided.

The server I used to play on regularly (as a player mind you not staff) Tanked when the host through inexperience had inexperienced staff make a lot of new inexperienced staff. This ended up their personal playground and all the other players including donors left. With nobody playing and all the donors gone it was just a matter of time before it all collapsed like a house built of cards. One of the servers I staffed the host got tired of complaints but didn't know how to deal with them and opted to close the server versus listening to people cry. The other one even though I designed the server, the host and I clashed Idea wise so I opted to let him have his way and departed. I quit playing for a while and came back (4 days ago) to find the results I have already mentioned on my previous servers, and thus set out to find a new home.

Things I look for in a server are as follows: Friendly and helpful community with a mature foundation. Staff that doesn't just spawn whatever they want. A server where players have to actually work for what they want kind of like vanilla Minecraft(where all the fun is). And close geographic proximity (it said the server was in the US on Minecraft.net and I get decent ping).

An economy system would be good, but interest would only separate rich from poor players. When a player reach a certain amount of money, he could live of the rents, getting tens of thousands of $ each hour (what Optical meant by "explode").

Edit: D00m summed up what I think is the best system.

Math question for you. At what amount of money would a player already have to have to earn $10,000 in interest every 30min at a 5% return? it's probably more than you think, and you have to question how that player received that much money so quickly in the first place. If it's through time spent on the server and work done, do they not deserve it?

What D00m described is a barter system. Barter systems encourage hoarding of goods and the exact type of separation you guys are so much against.

I agree with morten that a gold based economy would be best, but to be honest, i have never really witnessed a money economy like the one suggested.

See the above notes on a barter system.
A currency based economy is a beautiful thing to behold. Everybody can easily get and amass currency, not just the elite who know the best way to get gold or had a head start on the server.

Give it some thought, ask me more questions. Pick at different parts. I'm more than happy to answer and address any concerns. I will always do my best to do so fairly and impartially as possible as well.

I almost forgot to mention that via residence a lot of staff issues were alleviated as players were made responsible for their own protections. When somebody had an issue with griefing it was investigated, if their home was not protected they were asked why. The griefer of course is caught and punished, but the player learns a little lesson in self-defense. Eventually griefing is brought to a minimum.