Discussion forum > Server News
Proposed smp changes
Nick3306:
--- Quote from: OzzyKP on March 24, 2016, 03:36:55 pm ---
--- Quote from: Nick3306 on March 24, 2016, 03:05:46 pm ---
--- Quote from: OzzyKP on March 24, 2016, 01:44:30 pm ---
--- Quote from: DeeKay on March 24, 2016, 12:37:24 pm ---
--- Quote from: OzzyKP on March 24, 2016, 10:51:43 am ---If there is no currency of any kind, then how would players buy/sell items?
--- End quote ---
They wouldn't, that's the point.
--- End quote ---
The first post by Nick said a proposed change was "- Addition of a player trading system" That is extremely difficult without some medium of exchange (i.e. money/points/seashells/something). Forcing everyone to simply barter would be an incredibly bad idea and effectively destroy a lot of the cooperation & resource trading that exists. Plus it misses out on great opportunities that could come from a player-run economy.
The creation of currency is one of the most important human inventions. There is a reason every nation on Earth uses currency instead of barter (and no it isn't because of evil bankers). It is a fundamental part of economics. See this basic presentation on the matter.
Basically, in a world you may envision where we've gotten rid of the server-run market and all the players just have to swap items, this is how it would work. I have a lot of stone (from all my excavating in my city). I'd like to trade it for diamonds, glowstone, iron, etc. Let's say Lando has a lot of diamonds he'd like to give me, but none of his builds use stone, so he isn't interested in trading with me. Let's say penguin wants lots of stone, but doesn't have any glowstone, so doesn't have anything I want. Then what? Then we don't trade and the whole system breaks down.
If we had some kind of sign/chest shop, can you imagine how messy it would be? Let's say, again, that I want to trade stone for different items. Just to sell this one item I'd have to create 20 different shops/signs. 64 stone for 12 glowstone, 32 stone for 10 iron, 40 stone for 1 diamond, 5 stone for 10 sand, 10 stone for 1 porkchop, 20 stone for 30 glass, e tc. Imagine if I wanted to sell more than just stone? Imagine if other people wanted to sell things? We'd have hundreds and hundreds of different combinations of various goods. Matching them all up would be very difficult and time consuming.
Money is just a middle-man that makes everything easier. If I wanted Lando's diamonds, I wouldn't have to trade him my stone, I could sell my stone to penguin for money, and then take that money to buy the diamonds from Lando. Everyone wins and it is soooo much simpler and easier a transaction. This is why money exists in both real and virtual worlds. No MMO or other video game that has some way to exchange goods uses a barter system, because they are absolutely impractical. No country or society uses it either.
--- End quote ---
Your points would all be valid if this was not a survival server, which it is. The server was never supposed to run on the economy, it just turned out that way.
--- End quote ---
If your vision for a survival server is that everyone is on their own and doesn't cooperate or share resources, then yes, eliminating the economy would achieve that. I think that is a very big change, and a bad one. I think the ability to easily share, trade and cooperate is an important part of this server, and was certainly a perk when I first got here. Shutting that all down by removing money would, I feel, make it harder for new members to join and stay.
But I don't understand why you listed "addition of a player trading system" as a new proposal if you intend to eliminate player trading/exchange.
--- End quote ---
How would this reduce player cooperation at all? I honestly don't see how having money increases peoples willingness to work together. In fact, I would argue that it would increase cooperation because instead of being able to buy all the blocks and stuff that you want, you're more likely to team up with others to survive and build.
The player trading system would be block for block, it creates more of a fail safe so someone doesn't take your stuff then not give you theirs. If players wanted, they could create a currency in game by using gold or something but having an overall currency for the server is something we want to get rid of. It turns the survival server into an economy server where its all about getting money.
100penguin.:
Oh, I didn't mean a 'theme' as such dk, but more how I saw it as being. It's one of the few servers where wipes don't occur, and I'm aware this is one of Optical's principals. It is definitely a personal opinion though, and a circumstantial matter.
UnknownHedgehog:
--- Quote from: Nick3306 on March 24, 2016, 03:53:07 pm ---
--- Quote from: OzzyKP on March 24, 2016, 03:36:55 pm ---
--- Quote from: Nick3306 on March 24, 2016, 03:05:46 pm ---
--- Quote from: OzzyKP on March 24, 2016, 01:44:30 pm ---
--- Quote from: DeeKay on March 24, 2016, 12:37:24 pm ---
--- Quote from: OzzyKP on March 24, 2016, 10:51:43 am ---If there is no currency of any kind, then how would players buy/sell items?
--- End quote ---
They wouldn't, that's the point.
--- End quote ---
The first post by Nick said a proposed change was "- Addition of a player trading system" That is extremely difficult without some medium of exchange (i.e. money/points/seashells/something). Forcing everyone to simply barter would be an incredibly bad idea and effectively destroy a lot of the cooperation & resource trading that exists. Plus it misses out on great opportunities that could come from a player-run economy.
The creation of currency is one of the most important human inventions. There is a reason every nation on Earth uses currency instead of barter (and no it isn't because of evil bankers). It is a fundamental part of economics. See this basic presentation on the matter.
Basically, in a world you may envision where we've gotten rid of the server-run market and all the players just have to swap items, this is how it would work. I have a lot of stone (from all my excavating in my city). I'd like to trade it for diamonds, glowstone, iron, etc. Let's say Lando has a lot of diamonds he'd like to give me, but none of his builds use stone, so he isn't interested in trading with me. Let's say penguin wants lots of stone, but doesn't have any glowstone, so doesn't have anything I want. Then what? Then we don't trade and the whole system breaks down.
If we had some kind of sign/chest shop, can you imagine how messy it would be? Let's say, again, that I want to trade stone for different items. Just to sell this one item I'd have to create 20 different shops/signs. 64 stone for 12 glowstone, 32 stone for 10 iron, 40 stone for 1 diamond, 5 stone for 10 sand, 10 stone for 1 porkchop, 20 stone for 30 glass, e tc. Imagine if I wanted to sell more than just stone? Imagine if other people wanted to sell things? We'd have hundreds and hundreds of different combinations of various goods. Matching them all up would be very difficult and time consuming.
Money is just a middle-man that makes everything easier. If I wanted Lando's diamonds, I wouldn't have to trade him my stone, I could sell my stone to penguin for money, and then take that money to buy the diamonds from Lando. Everyone wins and it is soooo much simpler and easier a transaction. This is why money exists in both real and virtual worlds. No MMO or other video game that has some way to exchange goods uses a barter system, because they are absolutely impractical. No country or society uses it either.
--- End quote ---
Your points would all be valid if this was not a survival server, which it is. The server was never supposed to run on the economy, it just turned out that way.
--- End quote ---
If your vision for a survival server is that everyone is on their own and doesn't cooperate or share resources, then yes, eliminating the economy would achieve that. I think that is a very big change, and a bad one. I think the ability to easily share, trade and cooperate is an important part of this server, and was certainly a perk when I first got here. Shutting that all down by removing money would, I feel, make it harder for new members to join and stay.
But I don't understand why you listed "addition of a player trading system" as a new proposal if you intend to eliminate player trading/exchange.
--- End quote ---
If players wanted, they could create a currency in game by using gold or something but having an overall currency for the server is something we want to get rid of. It turns the survival server into an economy server where its all about getting money.
--- End quote ---
If this is what's seriously being considered then I am opposed to this particular proposal concerning the economy.
Nick3306:
--- Quote from: UnknownHedgehog on March 24, 2016, 04:09:10 pm ---
--- Quote from: Nick3306 on March 24, 2016, 03:53:07 pm ---
--- Quote from: OzzyKP on March 24, 2016, 03:36:55 pm ---
--- Quote from: Nick3306 on March 24, 2016, 03:05:46 pm ---
--- Quote from: OzzyKP on March 24, 2016, 01:44:30 pm ---
--- Quote from: DeeKay on March 24, 2016, 12:37:24 pm ---
--- Quote from: OzzyKP on March 24, 2016, 10:51:43 am ---If there is no currency of any kind, then how would players buy/sell items?
--- End quote ---
They wouldn't, that's the point.
--- End quote ---
The first post by Nick said a proposed change was "- Addition of a player trading system" That is extremely difficult without some medium of exchange (i.e. money/points/seashells/something). Forcing everyone to simply barter would be an incredibly bad idea and effectively destroy a lot of the cooperation & resource trading that exists. Plus it misses out on great opportunities that could come from a player-run economy.
The creation of currency is one of the most important human inventions. There is a reason every nation on Earth uses currency instead of barter (and no it isn't because of evil bankers). It is a fundamental part of economics. See this basic presentation on the matter.
Basically, in a world you may envision where we've gotten rid of the server-run market and all the players just have to swap items, this is how it would work. I have a lot of stone (from all my excavating in my city). I'd like to trade it for diamonds, glowstone, iron, etc. Let's say Lando has a lot of diamonds he'd like to give me, but none of his builds use stone, so he isn't interested in trading with me. Let's say penguin wants lots of stone, but doesn't have any glowstone, so doesn't have anything I want. Then what? Then we don't trade and the whole system breaks down.
If we had some kind of sign/chest shop, can you imagine how messy it would be? Let's say, again, that I want to trade stone for different items. Just to sell this one item I'd have to create 20 different shops/signs. 64 stone for 12 glowstone, 32 stone for 10 iron, 40 stone for 1 diamond, 5 stone for 10 sand, 10 stone for 1 porkchop, 20 stone for 30 glass, e tc. Imagine if I wanted to sell more than just stone? Imagine if other people wanted to sell things? We'd have hundreds and hundreds of different combinations of various goods. Matching them all up would be very difficult and time consuming.
Money is just a middle-man that makes everything easier. If I wanted Lando's diamonds, I wouldn't have to trade him my stone, I could sell my stone to penguin for money, and then take that money to buy the diamonds from Lando. Everyone wins and it is soooo much simpler and easier a transaction. This is why money exists in both real and virtual worlds. No MMO or other video game that has some way to exchange goods uses a barter system, because they are absolutely impractical. No country or society uses it either.
--- End quote ---
Your points would all be valid if this was not a survival server, which it is. The server was never supposed to run on the economy, it just turned out that way.
--- End quote ---
If your vision for a survival server is that everyone is on their own and doesn't cooperate or share resources, then yes, eliminating the economy would achieve that. I think that is a very big change, and a bad one. I think the ability to easily share, trade and cooperate is an important part of this server, and was certainly a perk when I first got here. Shutting that all down by removing money would, I feel, make it harder for new members to join and stay.
But I don't understand why you listed "addition of a player trading system" as a new proposal if you intend to eliminate player trading/exchange.
--- End quote ---
If players wanted, they could create a currency in game by using gold or something but having an overall currency for the server is something we want to get rid of. It turns the survival server into an economy server where its all about getting money.
--- End quote ---
If this is what's seriously being considered then I am opposed to this particular proposal concerning the economy.
--- End quote ---
Care to elaborate? I thought it was pretty clear from the start that we wanted to do away with the entire current economy.
UnknownHedgehog:
--- Quote from: Nick3306 on March 24, 2016, 04:15:03 pm ---
--- Quote from: UnknownHedgehog on March 24, 2016, 04:09:10 pm ---
--- Quote from: Nick3306 on March 24, 2016, 03:53:07 pm ---
--- Quote from: OzzyKP on March 24, 2016, 03:36:55 pm ---
--- Quote from: Nick3306 on March 24, 2016, 03:05:46 pm ---
--- Quote from: OzzyKP on March 24, 2016, 01:44:30 pm ---
--- Quote from: DeeKay on March 24, 2016, 12:37:24 pm ---
--- Quote from: OzzyKP on March 24, 2016, 10:51:43 am ---If there is no currency of any kind, then how would players buy/sell items?
--- End quote ---
They wouldn't, that's the point.
--- End quote ---
The first post by Nick said a proposed change was "- Addition of a player trading system" That is extremely difficult without some medium of exchange (i.e. money/points/seashells/something). Forcing everyone to simply barter would be an incredibly bad idea and effectively destroy a lot of the cooperation & resource trading that exists. Plus it misses out on great opportunities that could come from a player-run economy.
The creation of currency is one of the most important human inventions. There is a reason every nation on Earth uses currency instead of barter (and no it isn't because of evil bankers). It is a fundamental part of economics. See this basic presentation on the matter.
Basically, in a world you may envision where we've gotten rid of the server-run market and all the players just have to swap items, this is how it would work. I have a lot of stone (from all my excavating in my city). I'd like to trade it for diamonds, glowstone, iron, etc. Let's say Lando has a lot of diamonds he'd like to give me, but none of his builds use stone, so he isn't interested in trading with me. Let's say penguin wants lots of stone, but doesn't have any glowstone, so doesn't have anything I want. Then what? Then we don't trade and the whole system breaks down.
If we had some kind of sign/chest shop, can you imagine how messy it would be? Let's say, again, that I want to trade stone for different items. Just to sell this one item I'd have to create 20 different shops/signs. 64 stone for 12 glowstone, 32 stone for 10 iron, 40 stone for 1 diamond, 5 stone for 10 sand, 10 stone for 1 porkchop, 20 stone for 30 glass, e tc. Imagine if I wanted to sell more than just stone? Imagine if other people wanted to sell things? We'd have hundreds and hundreds of different combinations of various goods. Matching them all up would be very difficult and time consuming.
Money is just a middle-man that makes everything easier. If I wanted Lando's diamonds, I wouldn't have to trade him my stone, I could sell my stone to penguin for money, and then take that money to buy the diamonds from Lando. Everyone wins and it is soooo much simpler and easier a transaction. This is why money exists in both real and virtual worlds. No MMO or other video game that has some way to exchange goods uses a barter system, because they are absolutely impractical. No country or society uses it either.
--- End quote ---
Your points would all be valid if this was not a survival server, which it is. The server was never supposed to run on the economy, it just turned out that way.
--- End quote ---
If your vision for a survival server is that everyone is on their own and doesn't cooperate or share resources, then yes, eliminating the economy would achieve that. I think that is a very big change, and a bad one. I think the ability to easily share, trade and cooperate is an important part of this server, and was certainly a perk when I first got here. Shutting that all down by removing money would, I feel, make it harder for new members to join and stay.
But I don't understand why you listed "addition of a player trading system" as a new proposal if you intend to eliminate player trading/exchange.
--- End quote ---
If players wanted, they could create a currency in game by using gold or something but having an overall currency for the server is something we want to get rid of. It turns the survival server into an economy server where its all about getting money.
--- End quote ---
If this is what's seriously being considered then I am opposed to this particular proposal concerning the economy.
--- End quote ---
Care to elaborate? I thought it was pretty clear from the start that we wanted to do away with the entire current economy.
--- End quote ---
Removal of the current economy system does not necessarily equate with no economy at all. I think that was the confusion. I am for a change to the economy, but not there being no economy at all.
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