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Messages - Nick3306

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16
Server News / Re: Introducing OptiQuest!
« on: July 18, 2016, 08:31:13 pm »
We are well aware how much benefit a custom resource pack would be. It just isn't high on the priorities list right now.

17
Server News / Re: Introducing OptiQuest!
« on: July 18, 2016, 07:22:17 pm »
Here is a quick video showcasing the early stages of the loot system by deekay

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1WTjBEw7Ows

18
Server News / Re: Introducing OptiQuest!
« on: July 06, 2016, 07:56:25 pm »
Just an update to let you guys know development is still progressing! We are working hard to meet our deadline for the alpha build which is the end of this summer.

New Images!
(click to show/hide)

19
Server News / Re: Proposed smp changes
« on: June 06, 2016, 03:45:39 am »
If you have any additional input feel free to add it, as for what has already been said; we've talked about it and not come to any definite decisions/future polls as of yet since we've all been kinda busy so we can still discuss stuff, but it is clear a large amount of players  (48/64 votes, 75%) want some sort of change. I don't know if Nick has attempted any sort of market/pvp replacement coding-wise yet (or if he is planning to). As said before, we don't have any idea when/if stuff will be implemented, and while we can do stuff in-game any plugin changes Optical gets the final stay in.
Nothing has been approved by optical so nothing at all has been done.

20
General Discussion / Re: Nocheat and Spigot updates.
« on: April 30, 2016, 05:57:15 pm »
Also, Spigot for 1.9.2 is out, why are we still in 1.9 ?

How many threads do you normally need to get an update around here??

While I agree with everything you're saying and think that removing nocheat would be best at this point, I want to remind you that people (including optical, as in the only person who can do all of this) have lives. It sucks, but you're just going to have to be patient and wait.

You are 100% right and usually I am an extremely patient guy, very boring even.



The reason for that reaction was the attitude I encountered, as if we first need a couple of threads, at least, before we get an update. That's the most ridiculous thing I even heard!
In practice, due to admins/owner being very busy, a couple of threads may have appeared before each update but that's irrelevant. They would have updated anyway, threads or not.

Also the use of the word commotion, while in fact it has been very very silent for quite a while.


Usually I wouldn't start a tread like this, we'll get the update anyway, it might just take some time.
But now I feel it's different.
The silence on the server is the result of bugs that could be fixed right now!
And we are all aware of these bugs, it's all in another thread.
So while usually time isn't a big factor, it is now!


And I'm still a very patient guy.
Optical is the only one who can update the server and he does it when he can. It doesn't matter if you make no threads or 100 threads.

21
General Discussion / Re: Nocheat and Spigot updates.
« on: April 29, 2016, 04:43:53 pm »
So basically remove nocheat and update to 1.9.2? I don't get what all the commotion is about, this is probably the first thread I've seen about this.
I think he is just strictly talking about the smp server.

22
Server News / Re: Proposed smp changes
« on: March 29, 2016, 04:39:35 pm »

The more people try to defend such an action, the more it looks like socialism; the same can be said for the currency wipe as well. Sure, people may build farms, AFK variants included, but isn't that part of the real world (standing in place for hours not included)? If you want to get places, you need to work for it. Trying to get rid of ways for people to accumulate wealth never ends well (people leaving), neither is distributing wealth equally. Socialism can only work if everyone does his part in the community, but this has never worked in the real world, either.

Excuse me if this looks out of order and confusing, because it's like 3:30 AM and I didn't record my thoughts as I read the whole thread. I was also typing at the speed of sound in molasses.
This is a minecraft server, not the real world. All we want to do is make the survival server an actual survival server.

23
Server News / Re: Proposed smp changes
« on: March 29, 2016, 12:42:26 am »
Pretty much all of that has been explained in previous posts.

24
Server News / Re: Introducing OptiQuest!
« on: March 28, 2016, 02:55:52 am »
I am pleased to announce that we have added the amazing tiggy to our build team.

25
Server News / Re: Proposed smp changes
« on: March 26, 2016, 07:45:56 pm »
I have never once proposed the idea of continuing to wipe the server over and over again, I would agree that several wipes would do nothing more than end Opticraft. I do not know what might happen after the server wipe and that concept is what excites me, that fact that anything could happen, a lot of which could be good for the server and community where as if things stay the same, I know exactly what will happen.

Sure you may have not used the market for your farms, and that is perfectly fine, but can you seriously tell me that for the majority of players that created farms, it was not for pumpkins, cacti, wheat and the most popular, melons? As far as I'm concerned, those are what kicked off automated farms in the first place for the sole purpose of getting money, not supplies. It is true that now we have more advanced farms like iron, gold, witch, and ender farms, but again, many of those are used to get money as well, if not selling the products from them, then selling access to them to players. A server wipe in conjunction with Nicks proposal of the points system and no money, the only incentive to build a farm would be either you enjoy how they work and enjoy building them, which players like you and gavin do, or for the resources which players like roza and several others use them for. I am alright with farms for the purposes of building them for the enjoyment and resources and team efforts in building them, not building them with the only incentive in mind being getting rich, but that's just me, and a wipe with the points system in place would fix that.

You want to level the playing field. In order to keep it that way you need wipe after wipe after wipe, otherwise it will turn into what we have now and that is not what you want.
If the money is removed, the whole idea of farming for money would be gone too. So removing the economy would be enough to stop the extreme farming. Actually, the items people were farming for money have been taken off the market so it has already stopped. Farming for resources would stay of course.

I think what he means by leveling the playing field is making it so that everyone is level after the numerous changes that have happened over the years that people use to profit off of that newer players can't; creating an unfair advantage. For example, one of the wealthiest players on the server still is somebody who sold melons at the market (he has long left since they were removed). Yes people would still have advantages due to the resources they would gain as time goes on depending on their dedication, but it wouldn't be an unfair advantage; everybody could be that successful if they worked hard enough.

And yes, removing money would solve the farming issue, much the same way removing a finger fixes a hang nail. It's not necessary to do to fix it, but it'd sure work. Ozzy's idea and mine for the market would just as well fix it. Supply and demand demands it pretty much. Ya, farms would still be there, but the profits would be negligible compared to the work that would be needed to make it. If nobody wants what they're farming, then it won't sell. If people do want what they're farming, it'd have to be at a fair price the players want, but the farmer wouldn't be able to sell everything quickly (thereby flooding the market), at least not without selling it at a ridiculously cheap price. Because really, who needs melons, cacti, iron, or gold that badly to where they would rather buy it at an expensive price vs simply mining it?
The whole point of getting rid of the economy is so the game goes back to being about survival and the server doesn't run on the economy.  That said, once you find a way to let players have shops that isn't messy let us know. We wanted to do player shops when we first launched the server but abandoned  that idea due the the mentioned problem.

Tbh, I don't know much about how this all works and all with plugins, but if you're really looking for one this isn't messy perhaps this:
http://mods.curse.com/bukkit-plugins/minecraft/chestshop

Again I don't know all the specifics, but from I can read and get it seems simple (it's been 4 years since survival was launched, surely there's something that would work).

And I know that's the intention of removing an economy, I get that. All I'm simply saying is that I disapprove of that idea (along with other people too as it appears) Imo, an economy makes survival more interesting than vanilla survival and plus it's 100% optional. It's not like people would have to buy from other players if they didn't want to, while people who do like an economy can still play rather than forcing people who do like an economy play only vanilla survival. Even though if this idea for the economy went through it's not like it would completely null and void the survival aspect like the current economy (I don't think it would affect the survival aspect much at all, tbh, just an addition to it).
Those have been around forever, it just turns parts of the server into a spamfest of chests, that's what I meant by messy

26
Server News / Re: Proposed smp changes
« on: March 26, 2016, 02:46:39 am »
I have never once proposed the idea of continuing to wipe the server over and over again, I would agree that several wipes would do nothing more than end Opticraft. I do not know what might happen after the server wipe and that concept is what excites me, that fact that anything could happen, a lot of which could be good for the server and community where as if things stay the same, I know exactly what will happen.

Sure you may have not used the market for your farms, and that is perfectly fine, but can you seriously tell me that for the majority of players that created farms, it was not for pumpkins, cacti, wheat and the most popular, melons? As far as I'm concerned, those are what kicked off automated farms in the first place for the sole purpose of getting money, not supplies. It is true that now we have more advanced farms like iron, gold, witch, and ender farms, but again, many of those are used to get money as well, if not selling the products from them, then selling access to them to players. A server wipe in conjunction with Nicks proposal of the points system and no money, the only incentive to build a farm would be either you enjoy how they work and enjoy building them, which players like you and gavin do, or for the resources which players like roza and several others use them for. I am alright with farms for the purposes of building them for the enjoyment and resources and team efforts in building them, not building them with the only incentive in mind being getting rich, but that's just me, and a wipe with the points system in place would fix that.

You want to level the playing field. In order to keep it that way you need wipe after wipe after wipe, otherwise it will turn into what we have now and that is not what you want.
If the money is removed, the whole idea of farming for money would be gone too. So removing the economy would be enough to stop the extreme farming. Actually, the items people were farming for money have been taken off the market so it has already stopped. Farming for resources would stay of course.

I think what he means by leveling the playing field is making it so that everyone is level after the numerous changes that have happened over the years that people use to profit off of that newer players can't; creating an unfair advantage. For example, one of the wealthiest players on the server still is somebody who sold melons at the market (he has long left since they were removed). Yes people would still have advantages due to the resources they would gain as time goes on depending on their dedication, but it wouldn't be an unfair advantage; everybody could be that successful if they worked hard enough.

And yes, removing money would solve the farming issue, much the same way removing a finger fixes a hang nail. It's not necessary to do to fix it, but it'd sure work. Ozzy's idea and mine for the market would just as well fix it. Supply and demand demands it pretty much. Ya, farms would still be there, but the profits would be negligible compared to the work that would be needed to make it. If nobody wants what they're farming, then it won't sell. If people do want what they're farming, it'd have to be at a fair price the players want, but the farmer wouldn't be able to sell everything quickly (thereby flooding the market), at least not without selling it at a ridiculously cheap price. Because really, who needs melons, cacti, iron, or gold that badly to where they would rather buy it at an expensive price vs simply mining it?
The whole point of getting rid of the economy is so the game goes back to being about survival and the server doesn't run on the economy.  That said, once you find a way to let players have shops that isn't messy let us know. We wanted to do player shops when we first launched the server but abandoned  that idea due the the mentioned problem.

27
Server News / Re: Proposed smp changes
« on: March 25, 2016, 05:54:22 pm »
. I would support a change in the Economy, however whenever you (the staff) want to do a change, why not ask us here on the forums for our input. That way there can be discussion and people can be happy with a change. But just removing a block based on all of your (the staff) dissucssions, would make people angry like the incidents with the Melon, Pumpkin and Iron blocks.
You are aware that this topic is the discussion that you speak of right? I mean there's a poll and everything.  It is not just staff that wants a change in the economy (some staff don't) but it is also the players as yes is currently winning in the poll. Not everyone is going to like change, but if the majority wants it, it will occur.

28
Server News / Re: Proposed smp changes
« on: March 25, 2016, 02:20:00 pm »
My proposed system is to turn this into an actual survival server, the points are only there so players can buy protection for their builds.
When we were first launching this server, optical, relkeb and I discussed player shops, we came to the conclusion that it was too messy and too hard to maintain which is why we went with the server market. I'm not sure if anything has changed since then to prevent it from being a total mess.

29
Server News / Re: Proposed smp changes
« on: March 24, 2016, 04:36:20 pm »
Removal of the current economy system does not necessarily equate with no economy at all. I think that was the confusion. I am for a change to the economy, but not there being no economy at all.
[/quote]Well that's what a survival server is. There could be an economy, it would just have to be created and maintained by the players themselves. That was the reason why the trading system would be there.

30
Server News / Re: Proposed smp changes
« on: March 24, 2016, 04:15:03 pm »
If there is no currency of any kind, then how would players buy/sell items?
They wouldn't, that's the point.

The first post by Nick said a proposed change was "- Addition of a player trading system"  That is extremely difficult without some medium of exchange (i.e. money/points/seashells/something).  Forcing everyone to simply barter would be an incredibly bad idea and effectively destroy a lot of the cooperation & resource trading that exists.  Plus it misses out on great opportunities that could come from a player-run economy. 

The creation of currency is one of the most important human inventions.  There is a reason every nation on Earth uses currency instead of barter (and no it isn't because of evil bankers).  It is a fundamental part of economics.  See this basic presentation on the matter.

Basically, in a world you may envision where we've gotten rid of the server-run market and all the players just have to swap items, this is how it would work.  I have a lot of stone (from all my excavating in my city).  I'd like to trade it for diamonds, glowstone, iron, etc.  Let's say Lando has a lot of diamonds he'd like to give me, but none of his builds use stone, so he isn't interested in trading with me.  Let's say penguin wants lots of stone, but doesn't have any glowstone, so doesn't have anything I want.  Then what?  Then we don't trade and the whole system breaks down. 

If we had some kind of sign/chest shop, can you imagine how messy it would be?  Let's say, again, that I want to trade stone for different items.  Just to sell this one item I'd have to create 20 different shops/signs.  64 stone for 12 glowstone, 32 stone for 10 iron, 40 stone for 1 diamond, 5 stone for 10 sand, 10 stone for 1 porkchop, 20 stone for 30 glass, e tc.  Imagine if I wanted to sell more than just stone?  Imagine if other people wanted to sell things?  We'd have hundreds and hundreds of different combinations of various goods.  Matching them all up would be very difficult and time consuming.

Money is just a middle-man that makes everything easier.  If I wanted Lando's diamonds, I wouldn't have to trade him my stone, I could sell my stone to penguin for money, and then take that money to buy the diamonds from Lando.  Everyone wins and it is soooo much simpler and easier a transaction.  This is why money exists in both real and virtual worlds.  No MMO or other video game that has some way to exchange goods uses a barter system, because they are absolutely impractical.  No country or society uses it either.
Your points would all be valid if this was not a survival server, which it is. The server was never supposed to run on the economy, it just turned out that way.

If your vision for a survival server is that everyone is on their own and doesn't cooperate or share resources, then yes, eliminating the economy would achieve that.  I think that is a very big change, and a bad one.  I think the ability to easily share, trade and cooperate is an important part of this server, and was certainly a perk when I first got here.  Shutting that all down by removing money would, I feel, make it harder for new members to join and stay.

But I don't understand why you listed "addition of a player trading system" as a new proposal if you intend to eliminate player trading/exchange.
If players wanted, they could create a currency in game by using gold or something but having an overall currency for the server is something we want to get rid of. It turns the survival server into an economy server where its all about getting money.

If this is what's seriously being considered then I am opposed to this particular proposal concerning the economy.
Care to elaborate? I thought it was pretty clear from the start that we wanted to do away with the entire current economy.

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